I was chatting with PPLE and he had some reservations about even allowing these types of forums on this board.

Does anyone think that having a GD or LBN is a good thing or a bad thing? and Why?

I was chatting with PPLE and he had some reservations about even allowing these types of forums on this board.

Does anyone think that having a GD or LBN is a good thing or a bad thing? and Why?

My point -

There are lots of places to argue over 9/11 collapses and to read the news.

How does lamenting the murders in Iraq today or arguing over various conjectures get us down the road to an effective move of the masses? That's not anything I can see clearly.

So then it follows that perhaps there may not be any reason for that content.

There are lots of places to argue over 9/11 collapses and to read the news.

How does lamenting the murders in Iraq today or arguing over various conjectures get us down the road to an effective move of the masses? That's not anything I can see clearly.

So then it follows that perhaps there may not be any reason for that content.
I agree completely.

Not sure how to organize the forums. Around interest areas? That tends to isolate people into little subgroups.

Maybe we should have a GD type forum, and then have the other forums be used for storing and archiving stuff. In other words, everything starts in GD, but then as it drops we move it into one of several interest area forums. Then, one can easily go back to or reference a previous thread by subject area. Everything gets front and center attention initially from the whole group. Once a thread has played itself out, it gets moved into, let's say "Constitutional issue" along woth other previous threads about the same general subject. That would make the older threads somewhat indexable.

Somehow at TGC we had 12 or so subject areas that all got traffic and interest - can't remember how we did that. I think we had 5-6 categories and 4-5 forums in each category. I don't remember what they were, but they were completely different than any of the categories and forums on other boards.

Funny, I just remembered what caused all of the trouble there - the arrival of some Kucinich zealots.

Speaking of which - candidate worshiping groupies are a plague, aren't they?

Funny, I just remembered what caused all of the trouble there - the arrival of some Kucinich zealots.
gee, Mike, I hope you don't mean me. I was (and still am) quite strongly in favor of Kucinich as being the proven best of a bad lot, but I don't remember causing any trouble. Or was that part of it?

That was what was so interesting about Dean. He tapped it. Whether he was aware of it or not-it was there--that wave about to crash. He had populist appeal-and was willing to cast a wider net to all demographics. He had to be destroyed, he was that much of a threat. And who can forget the spectacle of his destruction? Kucinich appealed to a select class of Green-style New agers in their insulated pc degreed enclaves whose self-centered behaviors and lack of contact with reality is still no threat to the power brokers (the PI thread on unity is a prime example of cluelessness---do they really not get it? TLCandie, or whatever, is singing the praises of unity for crying out loud and she was the one who repeatedly suggested that folks like mberst, who helped define the place, weren't welcome)
There you go, Mairead--he is no threat to the power brokers. He is a joke to them.
The Kucinich groupies were always there since many of the most progressive Democrats from DU (where this progression started) supported Kucinich and were hounded off with other "progressive" types who exhibited a little too much independence or discussed taboo subjects. There was a gradual whittling down and censure from site to site-and eventually Tin established Progressive Independent--evidently now hitting its stride and coming to the attention of players who recognize it as a potential vehicle for their own ambitions. Apparently, Tinoire was receptive and willing to sacrifice that "independent" aspect and convert it into a Kucinich fan club and cheerleading squad to run with the pack. What offended me, and maybe others as well, is she started justifying this because she had poured so much effort and work into the place but seem to totally disregard the community--as if the community was totally irrelevant to the success and could easily be dispensed with by her board nannies and Kucinich gestapos. Once Kucinich announced, it was back to the electorial team competition like a sporting event. Everyone who wasn't willing to cheer and protested was booted off the board--others fell silent or (disgustingly) stood in line to kiss Tinoire's ass. Now they preach about unity?

I don't think Mike meant you personally--how could he since Tinoire had already darkened your welcome. And you do know that Mike was involved with the Kucinich campaign himself?

I don't think Mike meant you personally--how could he since Tinoire had already darkened your welcome. And you do know that Mike was involved with the Kucinich campaign himself?
I might have misunderstood, Raph. I thought Mike was referring to TGC, not PI.

Apropos Dean, my perception was that his appeal was in large part to the DLC types, the same ones to whom MoveOn appeals (or appealed, I'm not sure what its vital signs are like currently). He generated a lot of bucks because many/most of the people who liked him were the ones able to pony up--the DU/Kos crowds were exemplary in that respect, and crowed about it too.

Whereas DK seems to have appealed to the really poor, and also possibly to the chintzy/cynical (it's hard to know how else to account for the discrepancy between the huge number of pleas that he stand and the rather small amount of money he was able to raise when he did. I gave nearly 10x what I promised him, futilely trying to single-handedly make up for those who were apparently not giving a dime)

(oh, and yes, I did/do know Mike was a DKer)

Missed that one. I assumed it was some abbreviated code for PI-like the one used for DU--The Site That Can't Be Named or something.

he was considered a flake:

"The energy of the stars becomes us. We become the energy of the stars. Stardust and spirit unite and we begin: one with the universe, whole and holy. From one source, endless creative energy, bursting forth, kinetic, elemental; we, the earth, air, water and fire-source of nearly fifteen billion years of cosmic spiraling." -- Kucinich, in the "Journal of Concious Evolution"

he was considered a flake:

"The energy of the stars becomes us. We become the energy of the stars. Stardust and spirit unite and we begin: one with the universe, whole and holy. From one source, endless creative energy, bursting forth, kinetic, elemental; we, the earth, air, water and fire-source of nearly fifteen billion years of cosmic spiraling." -- Kucinich, in the "Journal of Concious Evolution"
And you reckon that everyone read that and decided to focus on it while ignoring his work? :?

LBN gives a chance for people to get a specific perspective on the news (what's important, what it means) when they cease to fully trust more conventional sources. It attracts people in and of itself.

GD is sort of a catch-all. As long as it doesn't turn into the DU lounge, it seems to be the natural "place" to grow smaller boards. It served that role at PI and worked pretty well...

http://dozleng.com/updates/uploads/post-1349-1126121674.jpg

Funny, I just remembered what caused all of the trouble there - the arrival of some Kucinich zealots.
gee, Mike, I hope you don't mean me. I was (and still am) quite strongly in favor of Kucinich as being the proven best of a bad lot, but I don't remember causing any trouble. Or was that part of it?
Oh, no I was thinking of that one guy in particular... can't rememeber his username now - pan something?...who completely re-designed the board one night after we made him an admin.

Listen, I worked for Kucinich and was an admin on his board at one time.

Missed that one. I assumed it was some abbreviated code for PI-like the one used for DU--The Site That Can't Be Named or something.
The General Conversation.

That was what was so interesting about Dean. He tapped it. Whether he was aware of it or not-it was there--that wave about to crash. He had populist appeal-and was willing to cast a wider net to all demographics. He had to be destroyed, he was that much of a threat. And who can forget the spectacle of his destruction? Kucinich appealed to a select class of Green-style New agers in their insulated pc degreed enclaves whose self-centered behaviors and lack of contact with reality is still no threat to the power brokers (the PI thread on unity is a prime example of cluelessness---do they really not get it? TLCandie, or whatever, is singing the praises of unity for crying out loud and she was the one who repeatedly suggested that folks like mberst, who helped define the place, weren't welcome)
There you go, Mairead--he is no threat to the power brokers. He is a joke to them.
The Kucinich groupies were always there since many of the most progressive Democrats from DU (where this progression started) supported Kucinich and were hounded off with other "progressive" types who exhibited a little too much independence or discussed taboo subjects. There was a gradual whittling down and censure from site to site-and eventually Tin established Progressive Independent--evidently now hitting its stride and coming to the attention of players who recognize it as a potential vehicle for their own ambitions. Apparently, Tinoire was receptive and willing to sacrifice that "independent" aspect and convert it into a Kucinich fan club and cheerleading squad to run with the pack. What offended me, and maybe others as well, is she started justifying this because she had poured so much effort and work into the place but seem to totally disregard the community--as if the community was totally irrelevant to the success and could easily be dispensed with by her board nannies and Kucinich gestapos. Once Kucinich announced, it was back to the electorial team competition like a sporting event. Everyone who wasn't willing to cheer and protested was booted off the board--others fell silent or (disgustingly) stood in line to kiss Tinoire's ass. Now they preach about unity?

I don't think Mike meant you personally--how could he since Tinoire had already darkened your welcome. And you do know that Mike was involved with the Kucinich campaign himself?
The irony is that Kucinich's supporters do him more harm than good. We battled that out in the last cycle - trying to prevent the New Age people from hijacking the campaign. Now they seem more aggressive and determined than ever.

The irony is that Kucinich's supporters do him more harm than good. We battled that out in the last cycle - trying to prevent the New Age people from hijacking the campaign. Now they seem more aggressive and determined than ever.
Some of his supporters, possibly? :) If they are his supporters. I'm willing to accept that I mightn't be doing him much -or even any- good, but I'd need to hear arguments if someone wants to say I'm doing him harm.

The irony is that Kucinich's supporters do him more harm than good. We battled that out in the last cycle - trying to prevent the New Age people from hijacking the campaign. Now they seem more aggressive and determined than ever.
Some of his supporters, possibly? :) If they are his supporters. I'm willing to accept that I mightn't be doing him much -or even any- good, but I'd need to hear arguments if someone wants to say I'm doing him harm.
I mean the ascendant and domineering Kucinich supporters who are running off people such as you and me.

A Late Breaking News forum unto itself may or may not be needed, I don't know, but I do think we should take the concept as a challenge to provide news that actually matters.

George Bush reading your mail doesn't IMO. If you weren't outraged by him checking out your library records, listening to your phone calls, spying on your internet history, etc well..

Also I don't know who else reads Rigorous Intuition but they have a forum called Data Dump..

The question is - what is "news?"

If you go to a tech board, “news” is that which relates to the interest area of the community.

I go to agriculture boards, immigrant boards, union boards, and what is considered "news" there is completely different than what people post as LBN at DU or PI. Yet much of that news is very much political, and I would argue is also more significant politically than the junk that passes for news on the political boards.

This is a function of politics being seen as a specialized niche interest, with about as much importance as, oh, say sewing Renaissance costumes as a hobby. Actually, sewing Renaissance costumes has a much bigger following and interest from the public than politics does.

If politics is only for the handful of junkies who follow the news, live and die by the horse race campaigns, and analyze each and every politician's every move and utterance and apply a variety of litmus tests to them as though we were Medieval theologians refining the one true doctrine for the faithful, then LBN as done at DU and PI is valuable.

If, on the other hand, we are trying to break through the compartmentalization if politics, and engage more people, then political news means news about people, not news about politics as a spectator sport or leisure time hobby activity for the select few who are “into”politics.

to break out of that formula.
Aside from the political "Left" talk boards, there was a mixed, sort of political, issue board I used to hang on but the politics cut across a wide spectrum. It was like a magazine and every week writers would write on a related subject but from all differing perspectives. It was really a slick production with writers from the Progressive to Reason. After every article there would be a comment section. Although there were often entrenched positions on the issues it was an oddly stable board that survived as a fairly cohesive group through many transitions. I still have contact with a few of them and once passed on the link to PI. In fact, ProPippo on PI I recognized from that old bunch. He used to go by "apeepo" and is an older Italian gentleman living in Hawaii. Used to be an exceptional Mexican poster, "el Azul" and a Green, Cynthia Allaire who ran for office in CA and almost won, a gay Republican who lived half the year in Germany, Forrest Higgs, some kind of ex-spook who lived in South Africa and was always at loggerheads with Cynthia, the Green and a gun-crazed Libertarian from Michigan--who was the first person I ever E-mailed on the net. Someone recently told me he got himself a mail order bride.

Man that was a wild bunch, but it was fun.