IN 1970 the US Dollar was King and our Standard of living was King.
Yes we were an Empire and Many people around the world Suffered for our standards and suffered to make the Elite Americans even Richer.

In 1971 the US went off the Gold Standard and there is several reasons for this:

US Oil Production Peaked and since has declined.

Losing the War in South East Asia, Military Operations drained the Gold Supplies and also the Economy.
This was the time to end the Military Operations and Downsize but they did not!

Japan and Germany both caught up with the US and could Produce Goods and Services just as efficiently or more then the USA.

The other Creditor Nations now could Equal the US in many Science and Engineering Fields, now they are Surpassing the US(Europe published more Scientific Journals then the USA since 1995, Iter, Cern, European Space Agency, European Institute of Technology, World Leadership on Climate Change, Renewable/Sustainable Energy/Economy,better and Newer Infrastructure such as High Speed Rail,Life Sciences,Material Engineering,etc.etc.

Japan also a very high tech, research powerhouse

This is Why the Eurozone Exports about twice as much in Goods and Services(more High tech Good and Services also) then the USA, Japan for a Small country also is an Export Powerhouse(including High Tech)

The Soviet Union in the early 1970's began to Faulter Economically and the Elites knew that the system-Economically at least was no threat, hence the US started to lose it's status as the world's Protector from Communism(losing it's Political/military status)

Recently one could look at fortune 500's Global Corporations and the largest is a Dutch Oil Company, Europe has 190 of the 500 largest Corporations.

Japan for a small country is high on the list

China is coming with many new Companies Growing bigger.

The USA dominated this list years ago but now like GM, Chrysler, Citi-corp,etc,etc many of the corporations are not competing effectively with their Foreign Counterparts or they are being purchased by the other Creditors, for example Busch Beer was bought by the belgiums for 55 billion.

Anyway the Dollar Value versus it's Foreign Rivals:

1970

US Dollar Swiss Franc Japanese Yen D-Mark

$1.00 $4.00 $4.00 $4.00


2009

US Dollar Swiss Franc Japanese Yen Euro dollar

$1.00 $1.07 $.93 $.58


As You see the Swiss Franc Gained and is worth slightly less then the US dollar

The Japanese Yen is worth more then the US, up to a few years ago they would do the conversions on yen to US Dollar but for some mysterious Reason now they fail too and the Euro dollar is worth much more then the US Dollar.

Many other Currencies around the world have also gained strength against the US dollar over the past 30 years or more.

Basically the US main Competitors are the Europeans and Japanese.

Other Oil Countries also hold sway over the USA such as Saudi Arabia, Russia, etc. who are also Creditors because of this very Important Resource.

The US has lost Economically, POlitically and Military Wise.

The USA now has less then 11 million Manufacturing Jobs(much of this owned by Foreign Creditors),Huge Trade Deficits,Budget Deficits,Corporate Deficits and Consumer Deficits.

The EU for Comparison has over 30 Million Manufacturing jobs.

Japan is a Manufacturing powerhouse!

China is Coming up but still many assets are owned by Foreign Creditors.

Because the other Western Countries No longer worry about the Soviets(Communism)- they do not need America has a home base for their Products, Production,Materials Resources or Military.
They can set up shop in many ex-communist countries and use their resources,sell their products their,etc.

The USA Militay is 1/3rd it's former size and shrinking like the rest of the economy they both go together.

The Dollar was King when things were going our way but now Events have turned against the USA.

And the Leaders and Folks here have not Adjusted to fix the problems.

If we are not to be an Empire then Form a new System based on Freedom,Prosperity,Green/Social Economics and a totally new way of thinking but this has not happened so we are going from Empire to Colonial Slave Status and perhaps down the line even Break-up into smaller entities.

We shall see.

Obama's done nothing but accelerate the process quicker than any Republican could have hoped to do, and by him being a Democrat the faux-progressives will refuse to admit it.

I agree the USA needs to dissolve and break up into smaller, regionally like-minded countries. This countries size makes it virtually impossible to organize and coordinate any type of meaningful voice emanating from the people that creates lasting results.

I personally known many, many persons who were dirt-poor in 1970. So it is all relative. You are talking about the Owners and how well off they were and how the crumbs fell like rain there for a while. None of that means anything at all to the poor and the working wounded - then or now. Sorry, I guess I am having "one of those mornings"...

I would agree that the USA had poor people in the 1960's and 1970's but it's alot worse now.

When in 1970 the GDP was adding $1.79 in debt for every dollar of GDP Growth verusus $16.00 of Debt now and Negative GDP it would indicate that our Economy is not near what is was in 1970.

The USA had more Union Power in 1970 versus now which also helped keep Wages and Benefits.

The Gini-index is around 50 now, back in 1970 it was around 35 which indicates the Rich/poor Gap is much worse.

People did not Carry the Debt loads in 1970 as now nor was the cost of Goods and Services as inflated as now.

College, Healthcare, Housing,Food,Energy were all cheaper versus what people are paid in the present.

It maybe 4 or 5 times less in real terms, you know if your making $8/hour plus European Style Benefits in 1971 versus someone now working in walmart or not working at all (30 plus million people)then this is proof of what's happening, not everyone had such great jobs but many, many, many more had good jobs and benefits versus the present and the Inflation was much, much lower.

Some folks were poor, some Middle and some rich-always but the situation now is beyond Critical.
African Americans, Women did not always have Great positions in Society but even they had more opportunity then what's out there now.

So one Gains Rights and Economic Position on a Ship that Sinking, what has one gained?(Women, Minority Groups)

The Genuine Progress Indicator indicates that our True Economy,Society and Environmental measures peaked in 1975 and has since declined and now the Decline is Worsening.

Not Everyone Benefited but many did and many more had the chance to gain their Freedom at least, now that is History.

We were an Empire, The Empire has fallen and now where does this leave us?

Should we allow ourselves to be enslaved?

Should we Break-up into seperate countries?

Should we do away with Fractional banking?

Should we go to a Sustainable/Renewable Economy?

What?

I'm not Defending the System I'm giving a History lesson where we were in 1970 and now. In the end looking back it was not sustainable-Empires never are and as always people give their lives, Freedoms and Dreams up for the Empire. Third World Countries at the time gave almost everything to the American Empire and those who fought in the USA Wars-Vietman, Iraq, etc are also giving alot up along with the Millions of people that were Murdered in these wars.

that most everyone here knows. You seems to be trying to make a point without saying it. So say it, straight out.

You are saying that the US is an Empire? Check!

The US is worse off as a national economy now than in 1970? Check!

The US is a debtor nation? Check!

There is just one problem with this "history" - you are talking about two distinct things but don't seem to know it. The Owners are doing better now than in 1970. The empire that is the US is only military for a particular purpose; the actual Empire is corporate and is worldwide. The Owners own China and Europe, too. They are "loaning" to and from themselves. What is actually going on is that the standard of living for the average American has been artificially propped-up and the Owners no longer think that this propping up is necessary. So the US standard of living is being stepped down - but not for the Owners. Hence, the two different things I mentioned above.

Also, you can't ask what "we" should do, because "we" have no say-so - accept in direct action (which won't "create" anything)...

I think I generally agree with the argument but the attempt to weave the monetary part into the narrative is incorrect. The price or the "value" of the U.S. dollar hasn't really changed much since the early 1970s after spiking downward during the "inflation" part of stagflation in the mid 70s. Take a look at the adjusted price of gold (which is what the "value of the dollar" means).

http://www.nowandfutures.com/download/gold_cpi_adjusted1970-2005.png

The dollar, as a value, is not the culprit. The relative value of some currencies increased against the U.S. dollar (the Swiss Franc among others, European currencies in general), but other currencies declined. Consider the Pound Sterling.

Also, coming off the gold standard did pretty much nothing (with apologies to that whack-job, Ron Paul).

The Gold acted as a Check againt Printing too much money versus Production.

The Proof is Inflation and Debt since 1971!

The Inflation rate in Germany verus the USA over the past 30 years has been less.

My Friend bought a flat in Downtown Essen(1000 sq feet) and including her Mortgage, taxes, up keep on building,Electricity and heat she spends about 500 Euros a month.

That is about 6000.00 a year for Everything or $4800.00 Euros mortage

Her total Take home salary is about 24000.00 Euros yearly

She works about 1500 hours yearly

She takes 3 vacations yearly on average, this year she is going to Russia, Isreal and the USA, last year she went to Spain, Scotland and Isreal.

You will find Germans all over the world on vacation-common German people not just rich a very good indicator of their economic status.

Her Mortgage Payments equal 20% of her take home pay.

And very extensive Benefits that equal 40% of salary.

Swetlana makes average wages for the area, many Germans make more

They have the 2nd highest wages and benefits in the world after Switzerland including cost of living and taxes.

Her Car Insurance is about 550 Euros a year

Food in Essen is Cheaper then Florida!

Germany Spends 11% of GDP on Healthcare we spend 18%

Gemany spends about 8% on Energy, we are spending about 14% of GDP

Etc,etc

This is because they did not Print as much money and weaken their Currency, Creating debt and inflation like in the USA.

THe German Citizen has a much small debt load versus the American Citizen.

Germany is a Manufacturing and Technology Powerhouse, they do not have a low wage service economy.

The US Governmental debt is Exploding, over 13% increase in the US in 1 year versus about 4% increase in Germany.

Germany is a Huge Creditor Nation(trade Surplus), the largest actually over the past 6 years while the USA is the largest Debtor Nation.

German Corporations on Average also carry more cash and also are less indebted, this is obvious with GM,Chrysler,AIG, Citicorp,etc,etc,etc.

The Strength of Germany Inc is not just their Large Corporations it is their Middle and Small Family Companies which really give their Economy Punch.

17 Million Germans Belong to Cooperative, 3/4th of Working Germans also belong to Work Councils while Trade Unions still have alot of power.

They share in their countries wealth!

I'm still not defending Capitalism but German Capitalism is still less Harsh then American Capitalism

I've lived in Europe and see the Differences.

50 Days off a year.
Universal Health care with Dental Coverage
Universal Free Education and Trade schools
Extensive Welfare Safety Nets
A much lower Correctional Population
Much less debt like mentioned above
A much more Efficient Economy, Example-most of their cars are Diesal now and some get 60 mpg!
Appliances, Factories,etc also use less Energy.
High Speed Rail, First Rate Infrastructure

This ties into the fact that Germany did not Inflate itself into oblivion and they played this game smarter.

They are also tranforming their society into a Renewable/Sustainable Economy and they are the center of this movement.

The Germans are not tied to Gold either but they seem to have more Control over their Spending and are long range thinkers.

When America went off the Gold Standard they went Crazy!

this OP is trying to say. I am just not "getting it". What, exactly is he trying to say? Thanks in advance...

I think Anax's statement:
"The price or the "value" of the U.S. dollar hasn't really changed much since the early 1970s after spiking downward during the "inflation" part of stagflation in the mid 70s."

Addresses this part of the OP:
"IN 1970 the US Dollar was King and our Standard of living was King."

Bottom line is that the Empire used to be more successful, but its decline is not due to the decline of the dollar or the abandonment of the gold standard.

I am so way over my head here. But, I think the OP's argument is that even if you have supported US capitalism/imperialism in the past, things have gone so wrong that your standard of living depends on its demise.

Because their pain is the only pain that counts. I just can't follow the logic...

And it truly is: Enver Hoxha of all people had some crazyass theory called The Policy Of The Dollar" -- I'm not sure exactly how it is stated because I didn't understand the tidbits and couldn't find complete writings of Hoxha where it was discussed. It seemed to me to be a lusty mix of bits of Lenin's Imperialism (ie financial capital sets agenda for total world capital) and some looney conspiracy stuff that particularly harks back to FDR confiscating gold in the United States. Its very Ron Paul (not to be confused with Ru Paul)

Anyway, as near as I can tell The Policy Of The Dollar was the precursor to the current version of "going off gold standard/creating fiat currency = conspiracy by elites to manipualate currencies and maintain Empire" yadda yadda

So, now, in a stroke of self-irony that seems to have gone totally unappreciated (hence the levity), the argument has turned to whether the present is merely a CONTINUATION of the POTD or actually a new phenomenon brought into being by Richard Nixon in 1973 (ca, I forget the exact date they point to)

Sing the chorus with me a few times:

"I'm in the nuthouse..I'm in the nuthouse..I'm in the nuthouse.."

EDIT: just to make this a little less opaque

Step 1: postulate dumbass theory, with paranoid conspiratorial overtones, make sure it is only an inch away from saying that Jews run the world
Step 2: supplant dumbass theory with provisional dumbass theory that says same thing but breaks with orginal over fault line that is largely irrevelant
Step 3: debate lineage and relevancy of the two "dueling" theories especially as they relate to each other.
Step 4: drink bottle of Listerine

That the U.S.'s place in the Empire is degrading, which is true... but it is interwoven with monetary conspiracy theory (Gold, Federal Reserve, etc.)... which, the Kid is right... usually lands squarely on "Jewish bankers" or, best case, ends up talking about going back on the Gold standard or something.

It's America - all "solutions" have something to do with Money or Taxes.

I also think he is saying that there is a strange/unjustified juxtaposition between "American Empire" and "American proletariat"

Hard to say however

Makes me feel a little better...

What I'm saying directly is the Empire has died.

The US Citizens standard of living has fallen Greatly

Our military is now hired to fight in wars by the other Creditors

THis is further bankrupting the US Citizens and Destroying the Economy further.

The Euro Dollar is Emerging as the new Work Currency, it just takes time since many central banks have stock piles of worthless US DOllars and if they flooded the market by selling all of them now, it would cause great disruption so they do it a little at a time.

There is more Euros in Circulation in the world now then US dollars but since the Euro has only been around 10 years it takes time to get rid of the US dollars(1945-2000 or so) and replace them with a new Currency.

Since Europe is the largest Exporter, Creditor and INvestor each year, the Europeans are establishing the Euro more and more. Japan is another Creditor and powerful Nation but it does not have enough Population to Support the World in it's back.

And Remember Until World War 2 Europe was the head dog for how long? 500 Years!
And before that time-Roman Empire, Greeks,Vikings,Etc,etc.

Do you all think History just stops at 1945 and the USA was going to be the leading nation forever- The Cold War, Oil Production and Superior Manufacturing made the USA the lead nation and we have none of these three now going for us!
Much of CHina's Factories and so forth are owned by Foreign interests(Japan, Europe,Oil Nations)so they are becoming a Colony of sorts.

The Picture is we have some new Empires on the block and the US Empire is dead.
And we are being abused by these people now!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When you owe these people money and they buy the country up it's called Neo-colonialism.

We are being used and abused now, why don't you go out in the streets and search for the Millions of Homeless, the People who go to bed hungry every night, the folks who can't afford college, the folks who can barely survive on thier subsistence paychecks, the Women who Prostitute themselves, the Folks who die because they don't have health insurance or only partial health insurance,The fact that only 38% of the 18-65 year old population has full-time S.S. paying jobs, the troops that are dying in foreign wars and fight basically for some Social Benefits-College,Healthcare, a job(mercenary),etc. And how many soldiers have died from "Natural Causes when they got back to the states? Do some research on that folks.
The fact we have a life expectency of 48th in the world now and dropping,The US infrastructure that is falling apart, 40% of the world's Correctional Population, Half the world's debts and add all this up.

This is a country in deep trouble!

Solution:

Pull all Military bases out of foreign Nations-let Germany fight it's own battles!

Declare Bankruptcy and pull the plug on the Federal Reserve-let Europe suck off someone else.

Start building a Renewable / Sustainable Economy

End the war on Drugs and the war on the people.

Downsize the Correctional system to around 1 million from 8 million Citizens and only keep the real Criminals in jail.

Tuition Free College and Technical School

Universal Healthcare-100% coverage and no denials on treatments

New Trade Treaties and a Balance of Trade, rebuild manufacturing

Start taxing the companies on profits made in the USA and shipped back to country of origin.

New Tax Structure and make the Rich like they did until the early 1980's pay their share.

Regulate the Economy like it was until the 1980's and every other Industrial country has a regulated economy!

Sign Kyoto-Clean the Environnment up

Rebuild our Infrastructure

ANd for those who say where will we get the money-money is just exchange and control, the wealth is Natural Resources and People.

WE have plenty of people and enough resources to get it done.

Under the currenct system America is getting it's a...s handed to it!

Strengthen the Welfare and Social Safety Nets.

I think the problem people may be having with your post is that you seem to be lamenting the decline of the American empire, and also that you equate the decline of the empire with the decline of the well-being of the people. The well-being of the ruling class and the well-being of the working people are in opposition to one another, they are not the same or even compatible.

Are your solutions designed to bury the empire or prop it back up?

You use the words "we" and "America" as though the interests of the rulers and the interests of the working class were one and the same.

In the Old Empire(America) if one would fight for the Elites they would give something in Return. Middle Class,Free Tuition, Veterans Healthcare System,etc. and it was extended to a degree across the population.

As long as the Empire was strong they would help take care of the common folks-to a degree.

The Empire Murdered Millions of people across the world and many Soldiers died.

Now we are not an Empire any longer but we are being taken over by other Empires-Creditor Nations- Japan, Germany, China, Oil Producers and what the American Empire used to do to other nations they are now doing to us and I did not go Murder the South East Asian Folks or Central American Folks, etc. so I do not deserve to be treated like a piece of Crap while the people that were responsible for these actions in the past are either dead now or living in Monte Carlo and injoying the high life.

See just because this country was used as an Empire in the past does not mean we let others abuse us now! Because the past Generations are the ones who went down this route and in the end sold us out to the new Empires.

I want to be free and Properous not some slave! Understand????

I have 6 1/2 years of college and Vocational Training but I'm looking to land a job 60 miles from my house for 10/hour and little benefits in the hopes that the skills I learn will help me survive in the future.

My Father was making more in 1971 with an 8th Grade Education working construction.

I would like to live in a country that is not a Police State Either with 40% of the world's Correctional Populations.

Or 50% of the World's Debt.

Or has Healthcare and Cheap Tuition.

Just because the same people that used the USA as a Tool of Destruction decided to Sell this place out to the highest bidder and leave us to die does not mean I support Empire.

YOu know which is worse:
To Hurt yourself?
Or to Hurt Others?
The Answer is they are both equally bad, you must love and respect yourself as others!
Being a Slave because my Ancestors decided to be jerks does not bring back the dead or pay back the debts of past Empire, it just keeps the process going and going and going and going and going from one place to another.

Japan was Invaded by America and Nuclear Weapons used, now they are one of the Empires again and should do the same thing to Americans when I Did not give any order to bomb them nor fought in that war?

China? Germany? Others? Do they have the RIght to abuse the present Generation of Americans? I think Hell NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Because a few Bankers have decided to indebt me and try to destroy the place because they are done using it and support the new Creditor Nations?

I think Hell No Again!!!!

Thanks for clearing that up!

:scream:


:wow: