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View Full Version : Instant Runoff Voting - Not What It Seems



sunshinekathy
06-16-2008, 03:09 PM
RELEASE:
By The National Election Data Archive
Park City, UT June 16, 2008

Summary: After its report criticizing the increasingly popular instant runoff voting method aroused cyberspace debates and flame wars last week, the National Election Data Archive released a second version “Realities Mar Instant Runoff Voting - 17 Flaws and 3 Benefits”.

The National Election Data Archive, on June 9th, 2008 released a report “15 Flaws and 3 Benefits of Instant Runoff Voting or Ranked Choice Voting” that provoked criticism and comment on the Internet, including a web page called “De-Bunking Kathy Dopp's 15 Flaws of Instant Runoff Voting” by the organization Fair Vote. On the other hand, computer scientists, voting system experts, and election methods experts responded to the report by providing additional insight and information on alternative voting methods, including the flaws of instant runoff voting.

Instant runoff voting (IRV) is a method for counting “ranked choice” ballots where each voter ranks the candidates – first choice, second choice, etc. The IRV counting process proceeds in "rounds" where the candidate with the fewest votes is eliminated in each round and that candidate’s votes are reassigned to the remaining candidates using voters’ choices. IRV sounds enticing to voters who can express their preferences, but according to the new report, IRV does not solve the problems it is promoted as solving and causes significant new problems.

The National Election Data Archive recommends restoring verifiable integrity to elections first before implementing alternative voting methods, and reminds readers that not one U.S. State today utilizes all the basic measures required to ensure fundamental election integrity such as public access to election records, observable post-election manual audits, ballot reconciliation, and public oversight of ballot security.

The revised new report differentiates between the ballot style and the counting method, discusses alternative voting methods, describes an “IRV-like” solution that would solve some of IRV’s counting problems, and responds to Fair Vote’s attempt to rebut the first version of the report.

According to Kathy Dopp, the report’s author, “Instant runoff voting is a threat to the fairness, accuracy, timeliness, and economy of U.S. elections. The U.S. needs to solve its existing voting system problems and then carefully consider the options before adopting new voting methods.”

The full report “Realities Mar Instant Runoff Voting - 17 Flaws and 3 Benefits” is found on-line at
http://electionarchive.org/ucvAnalysis/US/RCV-IRV/InstantRunoffVotingFlaws.pdf

The National Election Data Archive is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organized for educational and scientific purposes of promoting fair and accurate elections by researching, developing and promoting methods and procedures to detect voter disenfranchisement and vote count inaccuracy. Such methods include independent manual vote count audits, exit poll discrepancy analysis, and the public release and scientific analysis of election data along with public release of election records necessary to verify the integrity of elections. NEDA relies on the donation of time by volunteers who donate their time and expertise because of their dedication to vote integrity and public service. The project depends on donations from from citizens who are concerned about fair and free elections in the U.S. in order to continue its work. All donations are tax deductible. To make a donation or become involved in the project, please visit http://electionarchive.org

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AnOhioan
06-16-2008, 03:22 PM
It was interesting to read a viewpoint that says IRV is not a panacea. I agree that the issue needs more study, after we have made sure our current system has been made more transparent. Unfortunately, both major parties seem to regard the issues of transparency and integrity in our election process with not as much care as I would like.

Virgil
06-16-2008, 03:33 PM
The benefit of getting it down to two people is to isolate the battle of ideas that should come out of what should be debates. It drives me crazy to hear people advocate instant runoff voting which says show up and it will all be decided. If there were more balance to the one party system and multiple parties ran, it would be hard for one person or party to win a majority. Of course in NC you only need 40% to have victory which is the Largest Minority Rules provision of weeding out third parties.

In the upcoming election if there were direct voting some of would want to see McKinney finish 2nd and that would be possible since it would mean the end of Lesser Evilism/Fascism. But then what you would want is AntiPurple against the Purple.

Instant Runoff is advanced by the dark forces, because it is stupid on the face of it, not that the electoral college is not an absurdity in the way of the obvious.

punkpatriot
07-29-2008, 04:22 PM
I'm sure what you said made sense to you at least...

IRV makes a ton of sense to me.

I don't want anti-purple vs purple, I want good candidates to have a chance and eliminate the idea of "spoilers."

Of course the same could be achieved if people just grew spines and voted their platforms instead of wussing out and making compromised votes for "winners" like Kerry.

It's not advanced by dark forces, otherwise it would be law by now.

(Those dark forces tend to be well funded.)

Virgil
07-29-2008, 05:27 PM
It has to come down to two people slugging it out. It is the debate after it becomes one against one that is important. I still say it is by dark forces and the reason it is easy to see is because instant runoff elections are a crazy idea. But in our present circumstances elections are pretty much a joke the way people's minds are controlled and the machinery.

But tell me any country in the world that has instant runoff elections.

sunshinekathy
08-12-2008, 07:28 PM
Although it might, as you say, "eliminate the *IDEA* of spoilers" whatever that means.

Nor does IRV find majority candidates.

Many false claims have been made by IRV proponents like FairVote.

Read the appendices of my paper which is now called "18 Flaws & 3 Benefits of IRV..." and you will see at least one counter-example to the false claim that "IRV eliminates spoilers"