The do-gooders have gotten a hold of the issue, thereby ensuring that nothing will be accomplished. The article just gives you a nice warm feeling, doesn't it though? It is so good to be up on all of the current issues, and oh so concerned.

http://www.alternet.org/water/147363/actor_mark_ruffalo_plays_the_role_of_his_life%3A_defender_of_new_york%27s_water%2C_land_and_air_from_dangerous_natural_gas_drilling/?page=1

[div class="excerpt"]Actor Mark Ruffalo Plays the Role of His Life: Defender of New York's Water, Land and Air From Dangerous Natural Gas Drilling

The acclaimed actor has jumped into the fight over gas drilling proposed for upstate New York and the environmental risks that come with the practice.[/quote]

Awwww. Isn't that just adorable? "The role of his life." It is a celebrity cause now. And just look at how sincere he looks in the picture. This is a cause I could get behind, it just touches me so much. Can I like attend a conference or write a check or something? Maybe if I write Congress?

And here the editor brings us up to speed on the issue and the exciting opportunities to get involved and be a caring activist.

[div class="excerpt"]Editor's Note: The new process of natural gas drilling called "fracking" has come under increasing attack from residents in affected areas as well as scientists, environmentalists, and more recently elected leaders as Gasland, the new documentary on the subject, makes clear. Some of the most vigorous anti-drilling activity is in the Upper Delaware River Basin, whose rivers and reservoirs supply drinking water to 17 million in NY, NJ, and Pa. Grassroots efforts have swelled and area artists and actors have lent their celebrity, talent and energy to the growing national campaign to halt the controversial technology. You can read more about how fracking is affecting communities.[/quote]

This seems really serious!! Wow! It will be fun to follow the drama.

But first let's get back to Mark, and catch up on just what exciting things are happening in his life:

[div class="excerpt"]It's been a busy year for Mark Ruffalo. The 43-year-old actor made an acclaimed directorial debut at Sundance with Sympathy for Delicious, a penetrating drama in which he plays a sympathetic priest, and he starred in the winning comedy The Kids are All Right, in which he plays a sperm-bank donor with boundaries issues.

I caught Ruffalo performing earlier this month on a platform high above a backdrop of majestic river, unflinchingly declaiming his love for river and land and all living things, vowing to protect them from a powerful enemy.

It might just be the most challenging role of his life. But he isn't acting.[/quote]

That is what it is about! Mark's most challenging role!

[div class="excerpt"]Ruffalo has come to a small park overlooking the Upper Delaware River in the town of Narrowsburg, NY as an activist, joining neighbors, environmental leaders and elected officials like U.S. Congressman Maurice Hinchey, to commemorate the river's unfortunate designation by the environmental group American Rivers, as the most endangered river in America. It is gas companies' imminent plans to drill in the area using the extreme technology called hydraulic fracturing, or "fracking," that has earned the river its title, and in turn, the day's impassioned remarks. Fracking, performed in 34 states, and now aimed at eastern Pennsylvania and New York, involves pressure-drilling millions of gallons of water -- laced with sand and toxic chemicals -- more than a mile into gas-rich deep shale formations and then several miles across in many directions, to release methane gas from rock thought too deep and dense to mine.[/quote]

This is so exciting. It could go on for years and years, and all of that time we get to hang with cool like-minded people who really care and feel really good about ourselves.

[div class="excerpt"]Ruffalo is determined to guard the river and the surrounding fields and mountains from invasion. When I ask him why and how, he answers with a spirit and thoughtfulness that tell me that for him this is not just defending a backyard, but defending reason from recklessness and right from wrong -- and that he just might prevail.[/quote]

Wow. He is my hero.

Now let's listen to Mark as he completely demolishes any possibility of any opposition to this from ever forming:

[div class="excerpt"]Mark Ruffalo: This new form of natural gas drilling has taken the country by storm. We're on a fast track to high-pressure water fracking here. I'm not opposed to progress or technology or energy security. But we don't know what this hydraulic fracturing is doing to the environment. Hallibuton [one of the big players in fracking] uses 590 chemicals in their "secret sauce," and they won't reveal them to the public. Everywhere they've used this drilling there's been incidents of water being poisoned, houses exploding from methane gas seeping in, animals dying. And until now the industry has been exempt from federal regulation.[/quote]

Are the gas companies paying him? "Halliburton" and "secret sauce" - that will be good for 20 years of liberals emoting about this the way they do about Monsanto and high fructose corn syrup.

Sure, see? It is just a matter of not knowing what it is doing to the environment, and a lack of regulation - that is all. Very few will understand why that is anything to be alarmed about, which means that we get to be the special few who really care about things. Perfect.

Lots of nice buzz words and slogans there.

No liberal cause would be complete without some condescending little simple-minded analogies. Come on Mark, you can do it. Put it in terms that the stupid sheeple can understand, the dumb morons, and that will double as a little inside joke among the beautiful caring people.

[div class="excerpt"]What we have in both places is oil and gas companies saying to us, "Don't worry. We'll take care of you. We have the technology. We know what we're doing. Trust us." But the gas and oil companies are like that lover that you had that is always cheating on you, and you keep taking back because they keep promising they're not going to cheat on you anymore. That's what they're like.[/quote]

Oh, gee, wow. I get it now. WTF???

Now we need to insult all of the people directly affected by this, while claiming the high moral ground for ourselves. That means taking a phony sympathetic and tolerant tone toward our inferiors. We can work in some romantic nostalgia bullshit, and some other liberal causes while we are at it, so as to really paint the picture in such a way that most people will say WTF??? while the liberals can all pat themselves and each other on the back.

[div class="excerpt"]It's the saddest thing. Look around. All these people buy from local farmers here in the Catskills and across the river in Wayne County. I buy a pig, a lamb from my neighbor. My neighbor gives me deer. I let neighbors hunt on my land. It's a relationship that we've enjoyed. Now drilling's come in and everyone wants to tear everyone's throat out.

One of the sources of the division comes from the fact that the farmers have been screwed in upstate New York. They can't make a living wage. They have farms that were handed down to them that they've been working for decades but can't make a living from. The gas companies, in a very cynical way, before they've even gotten the OK to drill, have come in and promised money. What's happening as a result is our community is being torn asunder. It's heartbreaking to me.[/quote]

Fucking arrogant asshole. He is writing the screenplay right here in the interview.

It is not fucking "heartbreaking" to him, the fucking asshole. This is not what "heartbreaking" looks like - this is what some sort of Oprah Hollywood PR coming-soon-on-DVD fake "heartbreaking" looks like.

People like him are responsible for tearing the community asunder. Lying self-righteous sack of shit.

[div class="excerpt"]But some people are pro-drilling and unwilling to wait for the EPA studies because they want to get rich quick. Look around today. There are guys standing next to farmers, shouting to drill now, who are tanned and wearing flip-flops and a yachting belt. They got money; they just want a lot more.[/quote]

Liar. Such a liar.

[div class="excerpt"]You think I'm going to stand by and let my kids drink the water that runs off from their drilled fields to my pond and well? No way. They can do whatever they want on their land, but when they're poisoning me, poisoning my three kids, poisoning 9 million in New York, I got to stand up and say no. It's a matter of conscience for me. Clean air and clean water is a matter of right. I can’t let people poison this land without a fight. And I'm just one of many.[/quote]

A person who was seriously worried about his kids being poisoned, and who had no alternatives would never say anything like this. This is a concocted lie to engage people's emotions.

Doing this with such a serious issue, and then using fake concerns about your kids health to make your point is dead certain to get most people to dismiss him, and at the same time dismiss any and all opposition to fracking.

You see, it is a matter of conscience for him - as an enlightened superior being. That is what is important. His conscience.

This is not a person who is serious about this issue, this is a person who is very serious about his own personal feelings about the issue and his own image. Can we get a close up of Oprah with a concerned look on her face now?

[div class="excerpt"]I’ve gone to Albany. I’ve talked to people in government. The lawmakers on our side, you know what they told me? "You better not let up on your lobbying." It's not an easy fight. We're up against a powerful enemy with lots of money, lobbyists and lawyers.[/quote]

He is speaking truth to power! And suggesting that we all do that, and do a lot more of it. Sure! Our letters will beat Halliburton's $$$$$$ - won't they?

Just keep on lobbying. The fucking Congress people told him to keep up his lobbying so as to beat Halliburton's lobbying. You can't make this shit up. They are poisoning your fucking kids, Mark, remember? And you took this shit from Congress people and have no comment about that? Working within the fucking system, are we? How nice.

[div class="excerpt"]The system is not entirely rigged. The most cynical of forces would like us to believe that, but a group of people together can change things. There is nothing more convincing than to see people who have nothing to gain but the overall public good out in the world and lobbying for what is right.[/quote]

If there is one fucking thing you can say about what we learn from looking at fracking that is absolutely certain, it is that the system is entirely rigged. Of course the damned system is rigged, they fucking rigged it or this could never have gone on. But here we get more fucking hope and fucking change.

[div class="excerpt"]I believe we're seeing the beginning of a national campaign to pause the drilling madness, and to educate and illuminate. When you go out and you have the facts and you take steps forward to defend the things you know to be right, then the world becomes a more hopeful place.[/quote]

The goddamned world is becoming a more hopeful place! Isn't that what we were all hoping for? More hope?

It is the start of the beginning of a campaign that will,eventually lead to a pause! A pause! Just think - a pause. Now that is change we can believe in.

And we get to take fucking steps = bay steps maybe, but hey they are steps! And we can "educate and illuminate" along the way - otherwise known as look down our noses at people. The facts! That is all we need! Just shove facts down people's throats and tell them we are educating and illuminating them - if they qualify, if they are good enough. It isn't our fault if the facts don't persuade those idiots out there.

It feels so good to be "defending the things you know to be right." What a guy. I would pay to see his movies. We have to vote with our dollars - be the change we want to see, align our consumer choices with our personal values, and make the right choices. All of the better people, the good caring people are doing that this season.

I think fracking could have been stopped. I think the reason it will not be is because of the approach we are seeing on full display here in this article. That may not matter to people. The opportunity for turning it into a liberal cause may be more important to them than actually stopping it.

This is the enemy. This is what we are up against, not "Halliburton." This is who is working against us, and this is how they are doing it.

"I think fracking could have been stopped." how? (not this way but how?) Cows are dying to know...and we are running out of time, the plans are to bottle liquid natural gas and sell it to Europe...investors from all over are involved...

and my fracking articles were the only ones at DU for at least 2 weeks, and very few paid attention... when I asked why, I was told it's too scary...its not the cause du jour...not yet anyway, not sure if it will be, despite whatever whoever this guy is says...

Oh and Narrowsburg is an oasis, a liberal oasis I tell you...(you got that one right) nearly the only village that's not dirt poor in Sullivan County...(actually mostly second homes there, damn city folks}...only ten miles (maybe 5?) from the NY metroline...

Never mind...its too hot and I have no time for the internet today...save your breath...

On edit, here's this:

http://www.vanityfair.com/business/features/2010/06/fracking-in-pennsylvania-201006#ixzz0rzZwGSU5

Vanity Fair...apropos...

Soon to be followed by Angela Jollie or some such up to her tits in baby Kemp's Ridley Sea Turtles, mission accomplished!

Hope is such weak, thin thing, yet properly applied it precludes the most powerful thing in the world.

It cannot be presented as yet another cause for people to add to the list. Not only does that not work, it eliminates any possibility of any serious opposition.

What this guy is saying is not atypical or any different then the way everyone is approaching this. A little more obvious, maybe.

I can tell you that people are as much in despair about the response and approach from the activists as they are about the fracking itself, as well it should be.

It is not going to go away. Whether or not it exists does not depend upon whether or not it makes the top ten list for the activists. If people are saying "it is too scary" they are in denial, not about this but about everything. Anyone in that much denial - extreme denial - is not worth talking to for 30 seconds. How come the politically aware people, the liberals and progressive, and "liberals and progressives" means everyone talking about it, are in denial about this, and the everyday people are not?

This is highly, highly dangerous and destructive the way the anti-fracking people are going about this. How can we stop them?

Not Halliburton, but rather we have to stop the anti people. They are the problem, not Halliburton.

Can you see how the liberal and progressive activists - and that is everyone, just everyone involved - run interference for the owners? By turning things into causes they destroy all of the energy, totally confuse everyone, insure that 90% of the people will say WTF? and then become discouraged and disaffected, and take any and all potential opposition to the owners and channel it into safe directions?

with raw people power.

I agree, but be prepared for a battle, because raw people power is exactly what they are opposed to.

who tried to convince me that the "senate is broken". His party controls the presidency, both houses, and he laments that people protesting would be "BS" (to use his words). You can't make this stuff up ... They are terrified of real people.

"Activism"-like this rich liberal Hollywood asshole is doing-is the main way of diverting people from social criticism.

Halliburton and other companies of that ilk don't need to divert our attention. The liberal elitists are doing that for them.

ignore them...

They are aggressively competing for the same audience and kicking our butts.

The answer to that should determine the response.

I think they are an obstruction, the main obstruction.

Here is what I saw with the fracking issue. Talking to non-liberals everyone was ready to go to the barricades over it, people grasped the bigger picture, all sorts of creative ideas for how to fight back and how to communicate the emergency to the public were flowing - "if that is happening, what else are they doing and what does that tell us about the state of affairs?" One encounter with an activist or the film, and everything collapses. The film and the activists hijack the cause. People move from questioning everything to a very narrow view of things - "fracking is horrible!" - from being motivated over to the frame of mind of "do something" like write their Congressperson or send a check somewhere, or maybe go to a rally or a conference if they can fit that into their schedule. But even the people steered into this new direction - very limited, very specific, very tightly defined - are a small number. Most people lapse into despair, because the message they get from the activists is these things take time, take these specific idiotic gentrified bourgeoisie baby steps, don't question the whole system (that would be being negative and depressed and we need to be little choo choo engines - "I think I can, I think I can" and stay positive.

The message from the activists is not so much that fracking is a worry, but rather that it is an anomaly or an exception, and that the smart people are handling it. In other words, under the guise of opposing fracking they are defending the system in a very effective and powerful way and discouraging thinking and participation by 90% of the people, all but the few. This particular asshole is using the fracking issue to promote himself, and also to promote some gentrified yuppie bullshit about farming.

but rather that it is an anomaly or an exception" I haven't seen this myself, except on internet discussion boards. Nearly every person I've talked to who knows about it sees this as something that is very concerning and that must be stopped. Of course, if I go to Woodstock (love me I'm a liberal capital) or something my view might change I haven't talked about it down there; Greene county is extremely rural and very poor, and I just don't see many of the liberals you do...I see a great deal of concern from all who know about it; I find most people haven't even heard of it... I'm scared shitless about this, and still haven't seen the film. I was bugged at the one talk I went to that one of the guys spouted some elitist bullshit about the Roughnecks...pissed me off...but that's about it...

Of course the Internet is another matter...

I guess its easier for me to ignore folks that I don't run into...

Yes, it is "something that is very concerning and that must be stopped." That is the cause. That contrasts with "what does that tell us about the bigger picture?" The first displaces the latter. The second leads to more likelihood that it could be stopped. The first locks us into certain types of action, a certain type of activism - concerns, and stopping things - which then opens up a Pandora's box and out jumps that actor in the article. The second opens up a wide range of possible actions, and much more urgency and potentially much greater effectiveness.

The one thing we can say about fracking with absolute confidence is that it illustrates perfectly that the entire system is in fact completely rigged, and also that it can easily be presented in such a way that it can be seen clearly by most people. Approaching it as a concern that must be stopped says the exact opposite.

That this is a huge symptom of the bigger picture, I totally agree. I disagree that there is only one thing we can say about fracking with absolute confidence, though I completely agree that this illustrates perfectly that the entire system is completely rigged. I say with ABSOLUTE confidence that this process should not ever be used due to the extreme danger it poses to our water. I say with ABSOLUTE confidence that the crime in the gulf is also part of the bigger picture, (and it needs to be addressed aggressively NOW)...I say with ABSOLUTE confidence that mountain topping is also part of the bigger picture but not one more mountain should be destroyed, not one more mountain...I say with ABSOLUTE confidence that nuclear power is too dangerous to use with our lack of knowledge, and the push for it is part of the bigger picture...I say with ABSOLUTE confidence that the raping of this planet, the destruction of people's lives,livelihoods, and cultures via military aggression is for the expansion of the ruling class's power and greed and is a huge part of the bigger picture of the ruling class's war on the people. And yes these are all causes that may be taken up by the liberals. Haiti was a cause taken up by the liberals, the people in Haiti are suffering still and that suffering is due to the bigger picture exacerbated by the reactions to a natural disaster, but they still need relief regardless the source of the suffering.

The chronic disease is the people vs. the ruling class, this is the disease and it needs to be cured, eradicated in fact, and I think we agree there, and we agree it needs to be addressed, talked about, and "presented in such a way that it can be clearly seen by most people." I agree with you there, and I agree that the majority of causes are distractions, and that those who embrace the majority of causes can be obstructions to eradicating this chronic disease. The majority of causes are actually tools of the ruling class to keep the people feeling good about doing somthing...recycling is probably one of the best examples to use to explain to people why most causes are both distractions and obstructions..,

Asthma is a disease, one of the acute symptoms is the inability to breathe, another is a potential to develop pneumonia. Finding the source, seeing the big picture of Asthma is critical, a cure needs to be found, it needs to be eradicated, it's a killer. If one were to develop pneumonia because of asthma, the doctor would treat the pneumonia immediately for that person, regardless the cause. If a person with asthma knew that conditions were there to develop pneumonia, and it could be prevented, that person would likely prevent the pneumonia from occurring, (do I need to explain the parallels?) If a person were to be having an asthma attack (people do die from these), they would not care if the source of the asthma were allergies, or bad environment, or emotions, they would want the symptom of the disease taken care of, they would grab the puffer given them.

All that said, I am on the side of the people, I am against the ruling class, I address this whenever possible and I will always fight the ruling class. But I think fracking needs to be prevented from continuing, I think the gulf problem needs to be addressed, I think that human survival has to take precedence, and that while the ruling class threatens survival on many fronts I will fight on those fronts of this war for the people. When the survival of species, including the human one, is in jeopardy, I have to address the wounds, possibly fatal, being inflicted on the planet. Fracking in the Marcellus shale, potentially can kill the water in at least 5 states with one accident. The gulf may be a fatal wound to a far larger area than is immediately apparent. Chernobyl was an accident not nearly as bad as it could have been, and can happen at any time. We have to take care of the planet, we have to stop the ruling class from continuing to stab it...we have to make the people aware of the cause of the destruction of the planet, Yes, yes, yes, but we need to survive in order to do so, and these wounds are becoming more deadly by the moment. Each stab by the ruling class on this planet must be stopped in any way possible.

so fuck me running if I'm an obstructionist, but fracking has to be stopped now, regardless the source.

of the "bigger picture" as well as the whole system, itself. An organization that yuppie, gentrified, ruling-class fucks like this asshole would never join in with. The problem is that every grouping of "concerned" folks (confronting the system that is killing us all) can so easily be taken over by these wealthy (and therefore, powerful) ruling class lackey-fucks. They can just fly in with all their press and glitz and "buzz" and just take over. If there were a group or party that was so aggressively anti-ruling class that these assholes would never, ever try to connect with and if that group or party were active in ALL areas of opposition...

What kind of group or party could that be?

shoulder the punks aside, let the big dog eat. By their inadequacy thou shalt know them. A bit of fire eating will throw them on the defensive, displaying their alligence.

One that works tirelessly to fight the ruling class, yet will address a truly exigent issue with expediency...

We don't seem to have anything comparable here...

this points to what you are saying, Mike, fuck me running again.

http://www.truthdig.com/report/page2/freedom_in_the_grace_of_the_world_20100705/

One might think I would love this passage from Hedge's essay on nature and his fucking ability to go and climb mountains. He's able to see this world due to his status, how many don't even have the time, chance, or opportunity to take time to commune with nature. I was at one time actually starting to like Hedges, but this, I think, is exactly what you are talking about. He expounds on the corporate destruction of planet here, yet pulls a kind of bait and switch later, you might want to read the whole article first, but his elitism is blatant, I think, and he's really getting far to full of himself.

Bait:

"The Penacooks, fearing the power of Agiochook to inflict death, did not climb to its summit. The fury you bring into the mountains is overpowered by the fury of nature itself. Nature always extracts justice. Defy nature and it obliterates the human species. The more we divorce ourselves from nature, the more we permit the natural world to be exploited and polluted by corporations for profit, the more estranged we become from the essence of life. Corporate systems, which grow our food and ship it across country in trucks, which drill deep into the ocean to extract diminishing fossil fuels and send container ships to bring us piles of electronics and cloths from China, have created fragile, unsustainable man-made infrastructures that will collapse. Corporations have, at the same time, destroyed sustainable local communities. We do not know how to grow our own food. We do not know how to make our own clothes. We are helpless appendages of the corporate state. We are fooled by virtual mirages into mistaking the busy, corporate hives of human activity and the salacious images and gossip that clog our minds as real. The natural world, the real world, on which our life depends, is walled off from view as it is systematically slaughtered. The oil gushing into the Gulf of Mexico is one assault. There are thousands more, including the coal-burning power plants dumping gases into our atmosphere that are largely unseen. Left unchecked, this arrogant defiance of nature will kill us."

Switch:

"Year after year I returned to these forbidding peaks from conflicts in Central America, the Middle East, Africa and the Balkans. I had a house in Maine on an 800-foot hill with no television, cell phone or Internet service. The phone number was unlisted. It rarely rang. I refused to give the number to my employer, The New York Times. I brought with me the stench of death, the cries of the wounded, the bloated bodies on the side of the road, the fear, the paranoia, the alienation, the insomnia, the anger and the despair and threw it at these mountains. I strapped my pack on in the pounding rain at trailheads and drove myself, and later my son, up mountains. I rarely stopped. Once, in a bitter rain, I crested the peak of Mount Madison in August and was immediately thrown backward by howling winds whipping across the ridge and pelting hailstones. It was impossible to reach the summit. On a hike in the remote Pemigewasset Wilderness I made a wrong turn and, fearing hypothermia, walked all night. By the time the sun rose my blisters had turned to open sores. I wrung the blood out of my socks. I go to the mountains to at once spend this fury and seek renewal, to be reminded of my tiny, insignificant place in the universe and to confront mystery."


Where is the puking emoticon...???

and the killer:

"I stood a few days ago in a parking lot at Crawford Notch with Rick Sullivan, an Army captain and Afghanistan war veteran. It was the end of our weeklong hike in the White Mountains. Sullivan noticed a man with a T-shirt that read “Operation Iraqi Freedom.” The shirt had Arabic and English script warning motorists not to come too close or risk being shot. The man, an Iraqi veteran, was putting on a pack and told us that he was the caretaker of a camp site. He said he left the Army a year ago, drifted, drank too much and worked at a bar as a bouncer. His life was unraveling. He then answered an ad for a park caretaker. The clouds hovering on the peaks above us were an ominous gray. The caretaker said he planned to beat the rain back to the tent site. I thought of Earl Shaffer.

“You try and forget the war but you carry pieces of it with you anyway,” the caretaker said. “In the mountains, at least, I can finally sleep.” "

The horror...

or maybe its me, maybe this is a wonderful article...we gotta keep talking...

have to go to the mountains and "renew" ourselves. Then the problems are not so bad. If all those poor, and dying darkies could just go climb a mountain everything would be cool. Just like the mercenary veterans, who are so traumatized by going and killing all those innocent people for money - walking in the rain will heal you...

:puke:

If you would just consider this - the choice is not between big picture and getting something done, and the asthma analogy does not work in this case. Not suggesting failing to treat the patient so we can discuss causes of their condition. More like continuing to use some herbal medicine that dos not work rather than taking the person to the emergency room, and then arguing that because the patient's condition is really really bad therefore we must not consider anything but the herbal treatment.

I am saying that the approach you are insisting upon makes it less likely that anything can be done effectively immediately and on this specific issue, and also that it diminishes our chances for survival.

I feel like I am banging my head against a brick wall. Maybe it has to play itself out and things have to get a lot worse. Dunno.

Yes, Haiti needs relief immediately. But the people who are saying "we can't look at the big picture right now because Haiti needs relief immediately" are preventing relief from happening.

Why can we not even consider attacking these issues - the immediate needs - within a different context that allows some chance for success? I don't understand this.

;)

and how to get things done immediately... within the context of the bigger picture? I do consider attacking these issues within a different context, whats not to understand? Maybe I have aspergers. really. s p e l l it out, I need concrete. like the video bp posted, what's not to understand?

Gotta feed the cats. exigency.

Why don't you guys hop in the car and drive over here? Come across the Blue Water bridge at Sarnia and you'll be here in no time. When you get to London Ontario you are already half way.

I'll be working for a vendor for Grey Fox Blue Grass next week, Kid actually met him. Anyway, I'll be jabbering when I can there...spooning in between...they could use a good dulcimer player, far and few between...glad the heat spell is this week, another 100 plus degree day and you all will really be getting some messed up shit from me...luckily it will only hit 87 tomorrow...
Honestly thinking of going to Ohio this August...might hit Sandusky, how far is that?

Yeah, I should be there. Headed the other direction next week - the UP.

Sandusky...you are better than 2/3 of the way.

I shoulda given you a heads up sooner. I'll let you know about Ohio...all my Sandusky kin are fundy evangelical Catholics, far right folks... at least no liberals there! Think it really might be 3/4 of the way looking at the map...7 hours to Erie from here, maybe 6...

I think it is easy to underestimate the destructive power of liberal activism, and its pervasiveness.

In this case, the liberals grabbing on to the fracking issue is much more of a problem then whatever PR Halliburton puts out there. But we see the Halliburton propaganda as the problem, and the liberal activism as better - kind sorta on our side - and that is the way in which liberal activism screws up our thinking about things. It creeps in all of the time, has a pull an allure. That Hightower article shows it: a guy who has been dragged into the liberal mentality. The pressure is relentless to make nice with the do-gooders. It wears you down to be a social pariah.

The bigger picture and the symptoms are the same thing. Thinking of them as separate is more liberal thinking. "yeah, yeah, I agree with you, and don't get me wrong, in the bigger picture we have to overthrow the system, but in the meantime we need to do something about this immediate problem." That thinking means never looking at the big picture, and it also means rarely or never getting anything immediate or practical done either. The idea that because it is a big problem that therefore we have no time for looking at the big picture is illogical. The idea that if we look at the big picture that precludes doing anything practical is false.

Does that count?

we could attack local issues all over, as battles in the main class war. The organization would maintain focus on the war, while delegating battles on local issues. The KKE is a great example of this, I think. I know we can't just create a party and organization like the KKE overnight; but how else can we combat the ruling class? Every time there is any confrontations, they send in their celebrity Liberals to blunt any affect. And any local problem is going to trump the class war to the folks at ground zero, especially if there is a famous star whipping up the latte.

An example (I think) of what I mean is that while the KKE is up to its eyebrows fighting the EU, IMF, US Banks etc., the local Athens KKE held a two day multicultural festival, celebrating immigrant workers. They made a big public statement saying there is no such thing as an "illegal" worker.
This is what I mean by having an organization that will not be thwarted by celebrities, that won't be side-tracked by Liberal ideology foisted off as "the only way to get things done".
I don't have the brains to know how to get from "here" to "there", but I can see that "there" is where we need to be...

because the dirty commies would not play nice and give deference. Yeah, the same would happen in these incidences if some calloused hands were applied to the problem...

We got nothing.

Ya know, given the enormity of the 'symptoms' and the vast number of major 'issues' arising all the time right now, it seems like there has got to be a way to use them as case studies to show how obvious the big picture is. It only takes a little common sense to recognize that fighting symptoms piecemeal, focusing on certain 'evil' corporations or politicians and so forth is a futile effort.

But there has to be a way to harness the energy created by local issues, to connect them. They are everywhere, and they are huge, they are in the media (as far as I can tell, not every encountering much 'media') - the fracking, the oil gusher...

Earlier in the thread Mike indicated that this type of liberal elitist activism undermines other efforts because it's going after the same audience, but I don't know if that's necessarily true, I think there is a workaround. I think that this insipid crap (bad-ass breakdown of the article, btw, mike) is transparent and it alienates people, and as long as we are clear that we are not just another iteration of that crap, perhaps headway can be made.


At the social forum there was a group (I talked about this in the activism forum) who had formed an emergency committee and headquartered quickly in New Orleans regarding the gulf spill. They appear to be getting into the thick of things all over the coast and talking to people, going to 'official' public meetings and causing a little ruckus here and there, as well as just trying to access information, take pictures, helping organize scientists to get some sense of what is really happening because everything is so secret. A big aspect seems to be trying to get local folks who are affected about this ~organized~. Not to bring supplies and 'aid' or some shit, but to -organize people, to make those connections, to identify the beast...

Granted it's the RCP/WCW, and there were some red flags (pardon the pun) during the presentation I saw, but it was the first time I'd heard any group speak in those terms, that wasn't all about 'relief' or something. It was about organizing the people to demand information and to demand results, and to become more powerful en masse.

I'm not mentioning this to tout the RCP itself by any means, but it's the idea of it that strikes me.


Sorry, I'm reacting to about 10 different posts on this thread. My brain is melting. It's so fucking hot here all week I chopped 8 inches off my hair yesterday just to get it off my fucking neck. Now I look *just like my Mom*, ha ha.

I hadn't read this far when I made my earlier reply.

You know, it reminds me of the big dust-up between UFPJ and ANSWER during the big anti-war rallies in like 2003-2007. There were a lot of things at play there but one thing I heard all the time, at the marches themselves and on sites like DU, was

"Why do they have to bring all these other issues into it? This is about the war, it's not about racism or capitalism or globalism. Let's fight one battle at a time."

There is such denial about connecting the dots even when they are so obvious, and even when it is so clear that there can be no success without doing so...unless...

people are only concerned with these 'issues' when they directly threaten their well-being (eg my kid's water is being poisoned so let's stop fracking here now and everything will be better)

~or~

when the issues reflect on them as immoral on some superficial geopolitical level, as in, I don't want my tax dollars going to kill these Iraqis or to Halliburton's shareholders - when in reality our tax dollars are ~always~ going in this direction whether it's as obvious as Iraq and Afghanistan or as subtle as black op provocateurs in remote places so you can buy cheap coffee or hothouse flowers.

How to counter these messages? How to counter the feel-good superficial crap? How to be clear that the message we are sending is not just another variation of this but is substantially different?


eta: it's also the difference between 'activists' who take a weekend trip to DC for a big saturday march, vs people who have nothing to lose and the will to fight.. (thinking of the KKE)

KKE shows us that a small number of people can have a big effect and that clarity is powerful. Also, it is not as though you can pick the "right" side to an issue and then be done with it. Reading the history of the KKE there is an ongoing analysis as situations arise.

The KKE is the fulcrum of world politics right now, at least the western world. We could do worse than forming a KKE-America - why not? Because we think Greece is small and we are big and great? I think they are big and we are small.

They are right at the battle lines.

Seriously, for a minute... I have thought about suggesting to Megan or to the Kid that they do the opposite of that... that they find themselves a way to get a one way ticket to Greece and just go... show up at KKE's doorstep (yes, they will have an address)... "Hi, I'm here to learn and help out in any way I can... How do you say 'rotten gringos' in Greek?".

It wouldn't be the first time... or even the five hundredth time, that it has happened.

It is a young person's stunt, but it is worth it.


The opposite, though, is hard.

I was thinking of us having time for them. Let's find a way to get the Kid a ticket.

What do they need? What can we do here to assist them?

I've been thinking about this, and after reading anaxarchos' post about Hightower and how he's changed for the worse, I got a little sad...Chris Hedges really seemed to be starting to come around, I thought about a year? ago. I meant it when I said I was starting to like some of his stuff, but he's just gotten too full of himself, or too caught up in the "I'm a cool leftist" thing...its a shame, but maybe he never really was getting it. Maybe its me that's changed and seeing through more...

Fuck me anyway, a huge problem I think in organizing in this country is our humongous egos; even folks who really get it have to get over their egos, I think, not get caught up in "who" they are but what the work is. we gotta be able to come to consensus on what to do, we got to get over "my way" and find our way. How do we get rid of our fucking American egos? I think that might be a problem in this country vs. Greece for instance. Maybe they all have huge egos too, but they put them aside...not sure how many Americans can. Again fuck me anyway.

and at Cedar Point, Sandusky:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NI27jlwNk2E

I wasn't at the park but happened to be traveling through and was on a back road when things got strange. I think it was June '98 so it might be the same storm.

We should prolly talk to the Kid or put it out for volunteers, but I will help any way I can

but for various reasons I think I would be more a liability than a help

let me know. I don't know where my passport is and it is surely expired, but as I attack my basement to make my 'home office' I expect I'll come across it. And perhaps take it as an omen. Ultimately that's the kind of shit I want to do; you and I could make an interesting travel team, heh, maybe balance each other out in a few different ways... I have to get my act together first (DISCIPLINE!!) but I'm already making progress and it's just my first week.

(which reminds me, anax, I'm ready to start studying any time if you're up for it...maybe I'll start a thread about it to see who is interested, and in what..)

http://www.cpusa.org/

Do any of you know this group? Would it be worth getting involved?

we've talked about that quite a few times, and at least once recently in regard to it being a "sister" organization of the KKE.

Suffice to say, they're still married to Obama at this point.

I thought: "These are Communists?" It was almost embarrassing. Here's a thread where this was brought up:

http://www.progressiveindependent.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=106917

very helpful. Sorry I missed it initially.

and was just coming back now to hunt it up