With its highly public court battle over access to an encrypted phone, the Obama administration is seeking to expand spying powers and counter the popular anger that followed the revelations by Edward Snowden.

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Would this be a big deal if said devices were used mostly by the poor/working class? Don't think so, this is an issue because these are the devices of choice of the well off classes. Were we talking about those 'government' phones nobody would even blink.

Nothing happens in this society unless at least a portion of the ruling class is involved.

This society again shows itself to be insane. How did these gadgets become essential over the course of 20 years? People say they can't live without them. How the fuck did you survive beforehand? Was it that horrible? It's just another capitalists racket.

Take this app and shove it.

Would this be a big deal if said devices were used mostly by the poor/working class? Don't think so, this is an issue because these are the devices of choice of the well off classes. Were we talking about those 'government' phones nobody would even blink.

Nothing happens in this society unless at least a portion of the ruling class is involved.

This society again shows itself to be insane. How did these gadgets become essential over the course of 20 years? People say they can't live without them. How the fuck did you survive beforehand? Was it that horrible? It's just another capitalists racket.

Take this app and shove it.

Let me gently (but firmly) disagree with you -- you couldn't possibly be more more wrong.

There is a kernel of truth to what you say, in the same vein that Anax once quipped that almost everything qualifies as a pet rock (ie only sustenance is not frivolous).

Behind the scenes, what appears to the end "consumer" as a vast collection of shiny new commodities are underwritten by a qualitative revolution in global communications. The fact that the capitalists do all of this just to hock more products means something, but it doesn't invalidate what is happening on the technical level.

Society is insane for entirely different reasons.

Let me gently (but firmly) disagree with you -- you couldn't possibly be more more wrong.

There is a kernel of truth to what you say, in the same vein that Anax once quipped that almost everything qualifies as a pet rock (ie only sustenance is not frivolous).

Behind the scenes, what appears to the end "consumer" as a vast collection of shiny new commodities are underwritten by a qualitative revolution in global communications. The fact that the capitalists do all of this just to hock more products means something, but it doesn't invalidate what is happening on the technical level.

Society is insane for entirely different reasons.

It is an almost exact analog to automobiles or airplanes. By the 1920s most folks couldn't imagine getting along without their car and by the 30's the same was true of airplanes.

This whole issue strikes me somewhat like the dangers associated with playing football. Somehow the idea that professional football players are being harmed by their profession is much worse than miners being harmed by theirs. That some (or even many) football players sustain debilitating injuries and a degradation of the quality of their lives seems a greater source for concern than the same facts regarding steelworkers or heavy construction workers.

The idea that issues of more concern to the upper strata of our society are considered more important and "bigger news" is to be expected. Yet it does strike me as "insane" when cell phone privacy is held to be of greater concern, socially, than, say, lack of adequate health care or education or housing or wages or lawless police forces.

I heard a news person on TV ask a privacy advocate how he could place "constitutional rights" above people's safety. He responded with some inane statement of if we do that the "terrorists" win. He should have said that we did that once in 1942 when we put hundreds of thousands of American citizens in concentration camps and everyone now agrees that was terribly wrong. How is this different?

I am in favor of thwarting the US government whenever and wherever, even if the "millennial" hipsters irk the shit outa me...

Let me gently (but firmly) disagree with you -- you couldn't possibly be more more wrong.

There is a kernel of truth to what you say, in the same vein that Anax once quipped that almost everything qualifies as a pet rock (ie only sustenance is not frivolous).

Behind the scenes, what appears to the end "consumer" as a vast collection of shiny new commodities are underwritten by a qualitative revolution in global communications. The fact that the capitalists do all of this just to hock more products means something, but it doesn't invalidate what is happening on the technical level.

Society is insane for entirely different reasons.

OK, I am being a cranky old fart here, I admit that. But it looks more quantitative to me, perhaps out of the context of current society I might be less critical. Cannot see the purpose in Joe Blow being 'connected' 24/7, unless neurosis is your goal. People need to disconnect from the screens(all of them) some, it distort reality. Well, I'm a vulgar luddite, don't mind me.

I can see purpose in those things in countries with poor infrastructure. Here the only folks who really need them are the homeless and of course vital service personnel like medical.

Brain cancer, dude. It'll all end in tears, mark my words.;>)

Cannot see the purpose in Joe Blow being 'connected' 24/7, unless neurosis is your goal.

That is not what is at issue here. Believe it or not, I'm probably as much a curmudgeon as you. Don't let the superficial stuff misdirect you (for instance, isn't the "digital privacy" ploy just open Islamophobia?)

The way commerce works is very different (in some respects) than it was only a few years ago. That is worth paying attention to.

isn't the "digital privacy" ploy just open Islamophobia?

How do you mean?

How do you mean?

Why do you suppose the FBI chose this particular shooter at this particular moment to ask for an override for anti-brute force measures? You think its not political?

The prevailing argument says that privacy measures = siding with the terrorists..

That is not what is at issue here. Believe it or not, I'm probably as much a curmudgeon as you. Don't let the superficial stuff misdirect you (for instance, isn't the "digital privacy" ploy just open Islamophobia?)

The way commerce works is very different (in some respects) than it was only a few years ago. That is worth paying attention to.


So what is the issue? Whatever potential is inherent in this technology(it is great) it's primary effect is that of a Skinner Box, mindless stimulation and distraction. And an electronic ball&chain. As for commerce: our pocket to theirs, where's the difference? As in our discussions years ago, they never run out of shit to sell, however insubstancial.

As far as I'm concerned this latest issue is gratutious on the technological level, the political hate mongering is the purpose. Just another way of pushing that meme while completely denying that you are doing so.

This wonderful communications breakthrough is more tightly controlled than any in history. In the day we had our own printing presses, now we must use theirs, or at least their distribution system. We know why we are allowed to use their toys: our weakness and their necessary conceit of 'freedom'. And this can disappear in a New York minute, at a whim. Consider events in Cairo 5 years ago, people thought the phones gave the people a decided advantage, but it turned out quite the opposite. As things stand I think the best we can do is work around this utterly controlled technology.

PS- That ball&chain effect brings to mind the purposeful discouragement of any solitude whatsoever in Brave New World. No time for thinking.

PPS- For sure the phones have been massively useful in displaying police behavior. But how that shakes out remains to be seen, BLM is looking like another compromised dead end.

So what is the issue? Whatever potential is inherent in this technology(it is great) it's primary effect is that of a Skinner Box, mindless stimulation and distraction. And an electronic ball&chain. As for commerce: our pocket to theirs, where's the difference? As in our discussions years ago, they never run out of shit to sell, however insubstancial.

As far as I'm concerned this latest issue is gratutious on the technological level, the political hate mongering is the purpose. Just another way of pushing that meme while completely denying that you are doing so.

This wonderful communications breakthrough is more tightly controlled than any in history. In the day we had our own printing presses, now we must use theirs, or at least their distribution system. We know why we are allowed to use their toys: our weakness and their necessary conceit of 'freedom'. And this can disappear in a New York minute, at a whim. Consider events in Cairo 5 years ago, people thought the phones gave the people a decided advantage, but it turned out quite the opposite. As things stand I think the best we can do is work around this utterly controlled technology.

PS- That ball&chain effect brings to mind the purposeful discouragement of any solitude whatsoever in Brave New World. No time for thinking.

PPS- For sure the phones have been massively useful in displaying police behavior. But how that shakes out remains to be seen, BLM is looking like another compromised dead end.

Can't disagree with any of this. BLM suffers from the same ailment Occupy suffered from - no class analysis. It is said that race in the US is a class issue, and no doubt it is, yet the approach to the issue can take a non-class avenue, and almost always has. The two most active majority Black movements right now with strong class nature are Malcolm X Grassroots Organization and Cooperation Jackson. They both have supported BLM, but have criticized BLM, as well.