The Difference Between Liberals And Leftists


Liberal- will blithely be assimilated.

Leftist- will promptly be assassinated.
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Liberal- possesses a quaint notion that one can Re-Form hierarchical power structures.

Leftist- desires to completely unravel and eliminate the functions and forms of hierarchy.
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Liberal- wishes to turn The Bank into The People's Credit Union.

Leftist- sees the need to turn the tables of the moneychangers and smash the marketplace.
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Liberal- feels a warm fuzzy feeling inside while intoning "share the wealth".

Leftist- desires to redefine concepts of wealth particularly as it relates to large metal objects.
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Liberal- says "Living Wage".

Leftist- says "Solidarity".
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Liberal- willingly shells out $3 for a glass of carrot juice.

Leftist- sees Root Vegetables as sustenance and metaphor.
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Liberal- outside the coffee shop talks daily about the need for the Cappuccino Revolution but balks at acting out for fear this would endanger his/her daily cappuccino.

Leftist- reuses the same coffee filter, paper towels or odd socks when all other options have been exhausted in an attempt to squeeze one more cup from yesterday's grounds.
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Liberal- wants to 'get out the vote'.

Leftist- recognizes voting as a nominal form of political activity meant to validate the Democratic State and convince the political consumer that they are a participant in governance.
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Liberal- can often be seen mouthing the "education is the answer" mantra particularly in the rarified atmosphere of the Citadels of Expertise. Revels in being near theory or people 'doing theory' in the academy.

Leftist- sees education as social engineering and cultural imperialism. Education Academies seen as the proving grounds for the future ruling class.
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Liberal- users of 'all natural' deodorant. The armpits are fresh particularly during commercial breaks.

Leftists- recognize deodorant as one of the essential pillars of Empire. Will often raise their armpit in tight quarters due to quixotic impulses.
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Liberal- write lengthy position papers on the plusses of developing more efficient killing machines (See Amory Lovins for more details).

Leftist- sees the Techno Warfare State as one of the great life destroying mechanisms in the history of Mankind and understands the relationship between war and oppression. The Health of the State being that which kills everything else.
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Liberal- true believers in the New Economy and Seattle (the city) home of Microsoft, Boeing and Starbucks.

Leftist- true believers in a different Seattle (the Amerindian prophet)
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Liberal- incessantly complaining about their leftist rentors.

Leftist- incessantly complaining about their liberal landlords.
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Liberals- have recently been experiencing a population explosion which seems to have been caused by a grey form of technocratic inbreeding. Much of this exponential proliferation seems to emanate directly from prime time television. And vice versa.

Leftists- an endangered species. Said to be only 723 remaining in the contiguous 48 states of the United States of America. For years they have been scooped up and exiled to the Periphery. To date all efforts to exhume the spirit of Eugene Debs have fallen on deaf ears.
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Liberal- Leftist: Can you tell which is which?

http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/1720/kerrry26hu.jpg

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c395/chlamor/che20others15.jpg

It's almost as though oligarchic conservatism had invented the concept of liberalism, in a brilliant flash of genius & inspiration. Setting up a congenitally impotent pseudo-"left" & pretending it's the only respectable "opponent" of conservatism is what makes right wing control so fiendishly effective.

If RWers ever had to face real opponents under conditions of serious & open exchange of ideas, they'd be crushed. They can only win by having fake opponents.

Leftist-Liberal:Stop confusing the two. No matter how many times you say
it the right and the left ain't the same and the liberals ain't the left.

Originally posted here:
http://www.progressiveindependent.com/d ... ic_id=7192 (http://www.progressiveindependent.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=224&topic_id=7192)

Re-posted here:
http://rigorousintuition.ca/board/viewtopic.php?t=13983

A little formality is useful, now and then...

I recognize that many people here define themselves as "independents" and therefore, may reject whatever came before... but it is still important to know what that was.

It is also true that "liberals" and "leftists" may find themselves allied on many issues or tactics and may well need each other under those circumstances.

Finally, it is true that "liberal" or "leftist" may refer to "political labels", applied by "the right", by others, or even by oneself, and have no particular relevance to the actual issues which divide "liberals" and "leftists".

Nonetheless... historically, liberals and leftists are not only not different points in a common spectrum but, in the end, are implacable enemies. And the issue is precisely joined on the issue of class, as has been mentioned before.

If the term "left" has any meaning other than a purely relative one, it is as that group of political ideas, parties, movements, and organizations which believes that politics is driven less by ideas than by interests and that those interests are based on economic class. Radical republicans (Civil War variety), revolutionary democrats, social democrats (including even a sizable chunk of the British Labor Party and the German SDs of today), socialists, utopian socialists, agrarian socialists, communists, anarchists, anarco-syndicalists, and nihilists - if these do not agree on anything else, they agree on the centrality of social classes even before they divide on what to do about them.

In contrast, "Liberals" explicitly reject the centrality of social classes. If such exist at all, they are assumed to be trumped by a common interest (national or otherwise) and any division is based only on transitory political opinion or policy. They are united with "Conservatives" in their agreement on the fundamental norms of society and on their long-term objectives (most importantly in the defense of private property and the projection of "national interest"). Indeed, for them, the current organization of society is the only one conceivable.

To the Liberals, the Left is a competitor for the same political constituency they claim to represent. The Left fosters "national division" and "class hatred" where moderation and "cooler heads" might otherwise prevail. They are often hand-cuffed by the "extreme demands" and "lack of reform mindedness" of the Left. If things come to a head, they can even justify arresting the Left... in the interest of "the greater good", of course (see Palmer, McCarthy, many more...).

The Left returns this attitude with interest... They regard the Liberals as the reform party of the ruling class. From this standpoint, the Liberals most assuredly need the Left. We are the monsters-beneath-the-bed that they invariably point to as a reason for the Conservatives to negotiate "reform"... "If you don't deal with us you may have to tackle the great unwashed". That is what "playing the class card" or "race card" means.

What exactly do we need the Liberals for? If there turns out to have been a misunderstanding of biblical prophesy and tomorrow all Liberals are suddenly captured by the Rapture and disappear from the face of the earth... how much worse off would we be? Would Rove suddenly be "turned loose" because Joe Biden was no longer there to protect us?

from retarded poster at RI:



Liberals cry out about mass murders.

Leftists worship mass murders like Che Guevara.

from retarded poster at RI:



Liberals cry out about mass murders.

Leftists worship mass murders like Che Guevara.


There is a gusano cottage industry where I live, that invents "mass murders" for Che. He's iconic, you see. Therefore, he deserves shelf space next to books which claim that Fidel was authoritarian when he was in Junior High School... really!

And the consumers for this are not just "the converted" but the Liberals who are themselves the worst mass murderers of the last 60 years. Where are their "memorials" to the real people of Vietnam, Algeria, Iraq, Indonesia, Chile, Congo, Angola and the rest? Where are the low marble walls with the names? Which American Liberal is not completely complicit?

Calling Che a "mass murderer" is the same as Libertarians talking about "freedom"... it is obscene on the face of it.

Cry me a river.

http://jimbocyberdoc.files.wordpress.com/2007/04/worms.jpg

On the other hand, my grandmother went to school with Jerry Ford in good ol G.R. (Graaaaaand Rapids, Michigan!) and he WAS bald in Junior High. I actually calculated once using photographic evidence that Ford was bald for almost as long as the average male lifespan..


Therefore, he deserves shelf space next to books which claim that Fidel was authoritarian when he was in Junior High School... really!

According to the lists I can't label myself, which doesn't bother me much, and I'm such a newbie I don't even know what is meant by the mass murder/Che Guevera comment? (explain, please),
I know I'm worried about Black Hawk Helicopters using Chemung County airport as a base, too close to my mom in Painted Post, maybe too close to you Chlamor?
I shop at thrift stores, but "own" my house,
I don't use deodorant (unless I'm really stinky) or wear makeup, but don't know what that has to do with political persuasion. I'm pondering other discussions here;
I like my coffee coffee flavored with milk, and I hate poverty, racism, and injustice.
I'm considered weird by 95% of my co workers, and I am loved by 95% of my students, and they tell me so.
Liberal or Leftist? I don't know,
I like to shoot a 22 rifle, and I'm a good shot, but I only want to hit soda cans.
I am sincere, but feel like I'm looked askance.

According to the lists I can't label myself, which doesn't bother me much, and I'm such a newbie I don't even know what is meant by the mass murder/Che Guevera comment? (explain, please),
I know I'm worried about Black Hawk Helicopters using Chemung County airport as a base, too close to my mom in Painted Post, maybe too close to you Chlamor?
I shop at thrift stores, but "own" my house,
I don't use deodorant (unless I'm really stinky) or wear makeup, but don't know what that has to do with political persuasion. I'm pondering other discussions here;
I like my coffee coffee flavored with milk, and I hate poverty, racism, and injustice.
I'm considered weird by 95% of my co workers, and I am loved by 95% of my students, and they tell me so.
Liberal or Leftist? I don't know,
I like to shoot a 22 rifle, and I'm a good shot, but I only want to hit soda cans.
I am sincere, but feel like I'm looked askance.

Che was the guy who organized and oversaw all the executions after they overthrew Batista. He was also vocally a Stalinist with all that that entailed. Ask Anax if you want the details, he probably knows Che's first cousin or something lol

[quote="Mary TF":2cneoe2j]According to the lists I can't label myself, which doesn't bother me much, and I'm such a newbie I don't even know what is meant by the mass murder/Che Guevera comment? (explain, please),
I know I'm worried about Black Hawk Helicopters using Chemung County airport as a base, too close to my mom in Painted Post, maybe too close to you Chlamor?
I shop at thrift stores, but "own" my house,
I don't use deodorant (unless I'm really stinky) or wear makeup, but don't know what that has to do with political persuasion. I'm pondering other discussions here;
I like my coffee coffee flavored with milk, and I hate poverty, racism, and injustice.
I'm considered weird by 95% of my co workers, and I am loved by 95% of my students, and they tell me so.
Liberal or Leftist? I don't know,
I like to shoot a 22 rifle, and I'm a good shot, but I only want to hit soda cans.
I am sincere, but feel like I'm looked askance.

Che was the guy who organized and oversaw all the executions after they overthrew Batista. He was also vocally a Stalinist with all that that entailed. Ask Anax if you want the details, he probably knows Che's first cousin or something lol[/quote:2cneoe2j]

Ya gotta get your head straight kid... Joe Stalin was almost dead when Che went ridin' motorcycles. What makes him a "Stalinist" except maybe some Trotskyite said so? That's considered a slander where I'm from.

How many people did Che "kill"? According to Alvaro Vargas Llosa, he killed the informer, "Eutimio Guerra", he had "Aristidio" shot, and he ordered the death of "Echevarría" in the Sierra Maestra. He also "ordered" Ramiro Valdés to shoot captured Batista soldiers when "in doubt" about whether they were war criminals (possibly as many as two dozen). Che was also indirectly in charge of the appellate court which reviewed the sentences of the popular tribunal (a part of the militia) that worked out of San Carlos de La Cabaña. How many died there? The choices are 55, 179, 200, or "over 500" in the time that Che was alive. According to the CIA, the total executed during the Revolution, "might approach as many as 2000", and this over the course of 2 decades.

What about sources? Llosa is one of the most common "scholars" who is cited. Wadda ya know? ...small world. He's a Mont Pelerin Society member and a "Senior Fellow" at the "The Independent Institute" which is yet another Volker spin-off. He is also "associated" with FIU (Florida Invertebrate University) which is the gusano equivalent of the University of Chicago. His rhetoric is boundless but his "numbers" ain't so large...

http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=1535

How do the "murders" compare to other revolutions? Well, the bourgeois French Revolution cost 35,000 during the “Reign of Terror” alone, the American Revoultion executed at least 5000 in a similar population, and then we have the “modern” revolutions and counter-revolutions which typically cost two to three orders of magnitude more in terms of human lives. In comparison, Che was fuckin’ Ghandi (oh, yes… Indian independence cost as many as 1 million lives).

Livin’ in South Florida, I can testify that Che missed more than a few…

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/ca/CheInCongo.jpg
Che in the Congo

[quote="Mary TF":1ntl48qg]According to the lists I can't label myself, which doesn't bother me much, and I'm such a newbie I don't even know what is meant by the mass murder/Che Guevera comment? (explain, please),
I know I'm worried about Black Hawk Helicopters using Chemung County airport as a base, too close to my mom in Painted Post, maybe too close to you Chlamor?
I shop at thrift stores, but "own" my house,
I don't use deodorant (unless I'm really stinky) or wear makeup, but don't know what that has to do with political persuasion. I'm pondering other discussions here;
I like my coffee coffee flavored with milk, and I hate poverty, racism, and injustice.
I'm considered weird by 95% of my co workers, and I am loved by 95% of my students, and they tell me so.
Liberal or Leftist? I don't know,
I like to shoot a 22 rifle, and I'm a good shot, but I only want to hit soda cans.
I am sincere, but feel like I'm looked askance.

Che was the guy who organized and oversaw all the executions after they overthrew Batista. He was also vocally a Stalinist with all that that entailed. Ask Anax if you want the details, he probably knows Che's first cousin or something lol

Ya gotta get your head straight kid... Joe Stalin was almost dead when Che went ridin' motorcycles. What makes him a "Stalinist" except maybe some Trotskyite said so? That's considered a slander where I'm from.

How many people did Che "kill"? According to Alvaro Vargas Llosa, he killed the informer, "Eutimio Guerra", he had "Aristidio" shot, and he ordered the death of "Echevarría" in the Sierra Maestra. He also "ordered" Ramiro Valdés to shoot captured Batista soldiers when "in doubt" about whether they were war criminals (possibly as many as two dozen). Che was also indirectly in charge of the appellate court which reviewed the sentences of the popular tribunal (a part of the militia) that worked out of San Carlos de La Cabaña. How many died there? The choices are 55, 179, 200, or "over 500" in the time that Che was alive. According to the CIA, the total executed during the Revolution, "might approach as many as 2000", and this over the course of 2 decades.

What about sources? Llosa is one of the most common "scholars" who is cited. Wadda ya know? ...small world. He's a Mont Pelerin Society member and a "Senior Fellow" at the "The Independent Institute" which is yet another Volker spin-off. He is also "associated" with FIU (Florida Invertebrate University) which is the gusano equivalent of the University of Chicago. His rhetoric is boundless but his "numbers" ain't so large...

http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=1535

How do the "murders" compare to other revolutions? Well, the bourgeois French Revolution cost 35,000 during the “Reign of Terror” alone, the American Revoultion executed at least 5000 in a similar population, and then we have the “modern” revolutions and counter-revolutions which typically cost two to three orders of magnitude more in terms of human lives. In comparison, Che was fuckin’ Ghandi (oh, yes… Indian independence cost as many as 1 million lives).

Livin’ in South Florida, I can testify that Che missed more than a few…

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/ca/CheInCongo.jpg
Che in the Congo[/quote:1ntl48qg]

MaryTF asked where the accusation that Che was a "mass murderer" came from. I was just trying to answer that question.

Excuse me on the "Stalinist" business, it was my understanding that Che, in his own words, called himself a Stalinist. I was only trying to convey that he was hard-fucking-core.

People's Democracy (http://pd.cpim.org/2007/1014/10142007_arun.htm)
(Weekly Organ of the Communist Party of India (Marxist)
Vol. XXXI
No. 41
October 14, 2007

Che Lives On In the Struggle Against Imperialism
R Arun Kumar

"The experience of colonial domination shows that, in the effort to perpetuate exploitation, the colonisers not only creates a system to repress the cultural life of the colonised people; he also provokes and develops the cultural alienation of a part of the population, either by so-called assimilation of indigenous people, or by creating a social gap between the indigenous elites and the popular masses. As a result of this process of dividing or of deepening the divisions in the society, it happens that a considerable part of the population, notably the urban or peasant petite bourgeoisie, assimilates the coloniser's mentality, considers itself culturally superior to its own people and ignores or looks down upon their cultural values."

-Amilcar Cabral

The significance of the year 2007 apart from the fact that it is 150 years of the 1857 Revolt, 60 years of our independence and the birth centenary year of Bhagat Singh lies in the fact that it also marks the 40th death anniversary of Che Guevara, recognised as one of the 'icons of the 20th century'.

Bhagat Sigh and Che are two people who always inspire the youth, though both of them are separated by time and space. Che was hardly three years old when the British rulers hanged Bhagat Singh. Nonetheless many interesting coincidences can be deduced from the lives of both the youngsters. Bhagat Singh and Che are both characterised by their strong hatred towards imperialism. Both of them courted danger with ease in their struggle against imperialism. Both of them had that charisma to attract youth with their power of reasoning and logic and an understanding of the aims for which they were fighting. Both of them sacrificed their lives at a young age (Che became a martyr at the age of 39 while Bhagat Singh was martyred at the age of 23). Death did not frighten them. Che's famous last words were "Shoot coward! You are only going to kill a man," while we all know how bravely with a smile on his lips and shouting slogans against imperialism and for socialism Bhagat Singh went to the gallows.

In fact they continue to frighten the imperialists even after their death. Both of them have frightened the imperialists to such an extent that neither their dead bodies were given to their relatives nor did the murderers carry decent burials of the martyrs. As Fidel Castro had said "They (imperialists) wish to deprive the revolutionary movement of even a symbol, a site, a spot." The reason behind this is not far to understand, as the most important thing that distinguishes these two revolutionaries is their love for the people and especially for the toiling sections of the society. It is for the well being of the toiling people that they have always thought, fought and ultimately gave their lives. So if they have a 'spot' it might become a 'shrine' and a place where the people can draw inspiration in their struggle for a better livelihood. The imperialists never want this to happen, as it constantly poses a threat to their existence.

The frightened imperialist forces and the ruling classes, even to this day are trying in vain to erase the memory of these two young martyrs. Last year MTV had shown an ad for their 'youth icon' contest, in which a young lad burns the poster of Che, implying that he is no longer relevant today and that, time has come to replace him. Of course, they had to withdraw it after a protest from SFI, but this shows to what extent they can go to erase the memories of these heroes. They have tried to kill their ideas by not giving them any space but failed as their ideas continue to occupy the hearts of the masses. They have tried and are still trying to misrepresent them and their ideas. The projections that they are terrorists, anarchists, only interested in taking away human lives are some of these attempts.

Another interesting feature is the attempt to own these icons as their own representatives and thus try to drive a wedge between them and the masses. This is not a new feature because history is witness to attempts to assimilate Buddha in the Dasavataras and Sufi and Bhakti movements that questioned the social inequalities existing in the society of those times into ruling ideology. It is happening now when MNC's and imperialist agencies use the pictures of these revolutionaries to promote their profits using the popular appeal of these heroes. It is thus, the task of the real revolutionaries to clear the air of confusion and take the ideas of these icons to the people. Linking them with the present debates will further help people to understand the character of the ruling classes and also give them an idea as to who is ideal.

British colonialists had claimed that they were ruling India because of their benevolent intention to 'civilise' us. The Royal Proclamation of Queen Victoria in 1858 stated, "It is our earnest desire to stimulate the peaceful industry of India, to promote works of public utility and improvement, and to administer the government for the benefit of all our subjects resident therein". To suit the changed times, imperialism is today claiming upon it the responsibility of 'democratising' the world. The invasion of Iraq, Afghanistan and the threats issued to Cuba, Iran, North Korea and Syria are all part of this 'sacred mission'. Dissecting this mask of the imperialism and exposing its cruel face, Che said "The United States intervenes in Latin America invoking the defence of free institutions.Those who kill their own children and discriminate daily against them because of the colour of their skin; those who let the murderers of blacks remain free, protecting them, and furthermore punishing the black population because they demand their legitimate rights as free men - how can those who do this consider themselves as guardians of freedom?.It must be clearly established, however, that the government of United States is not the champion of freedom, but rather the perpetrator of exploitation and oppression against the peoples of the world and against a large part of its own population."

Che was proved right. The US has a very bad record of human rights violation. But this does not stop it from sermonising about human rights and threaten other countries with dire consequences for their violation. The recent attacks on the black population in the US show the existing wide schism in the US society on racial lines. However best they are trying to camouflage racial discrimination in their country, they are unable to hide the growing dissent among the people. The torture chambers, detention of people without trail, not to speak about the Guantanamo Bay where they detain prisoners and commit all sorts of abuses are all live examples of the US brand of democracy. The mutant form of this democracy that they are trying to export to other countries is even more threatening. In spite of all this damning evidence against US, our rulers want to ally our country with the US and take part in the exercise of 'establishing democracy in the world'.

Che had warned, "Imperialism crushes nationality, tarnishes patriotic sentiments and colonises economy." Bhagat Singh too had said, "We believe that imperialism is nothing but a vast conspiracy organised with predatory motives. The imperialists.also organise general massacres, devastation and other horrible crimes like war. Under the garb of custodians of 'law and order' they break peace, create disorder, kill people and commit all conceivable crimes". This understanding of the nature of imperialism is true even to this day. Even a cursory glance at what is happening in Iraq, Afghanistan and many other countries proves the validity of this understanding. It is also a fact that bypassing the UN, US took upon itself the task of protecting 'law and order, restoring democracy and eliminating terrorism.' Any humane person will condemn these barbaric brutalities of imperialism.

But for some of the political leaders and commentators in the media, anti-imperialism is a dead ideology. They argue that post-Cold War, anti-imperialism lost its relevance and so has the non-aligned foreign policy. Unfortunately they are blind to the fact that it is only after the collapse of the Soviet Union and the socialist bloc that the US had unshackled itself and hastened the process of imposing its hegemony over the third world using its economic and military might. They advocate an alliance with the 'lone super power-the US'.

The same people who had benefited from the policies dictated by the Bretton Wood institutes at the behest of the US and pursued by successive governments at the centre are gung-ho about the strategic partnership with the US. They are the ones who are scoffing at the critics of the Indo-US nuclear deal and the strategic partnership. This miniscule minority of the rich wants to don the role and pose as the representative of entire country. The progress of this elite minority is depicted as the progress of the entire country, their opinion as the country's opinion and their love for imperialism as the love of the entire people.

They want all of us to believe that a strategic alliance with the US would be for the good of the entire country. They do not want us to question them about the implications of the strategic alliance that US had with Iraq before it fell out of favour, the condition of Pakistan or any other country for that matter. When everybody is crowing that the hands of imperialism are bhasmasura hasta they paint them as abhaya hasta and want us to place them on our heads without questioning them. An extreme expression of this faith on imperialism is found in the argument that it should be trusted to act in our interest even circumnavigating its own domestic laws.

Any argument against imperialism is termed as a redundant idea arising from blind 'anti-Americanism'. For this, Che had given a reply long back, valid even today "We are against the United States because the United States is against our people." He further clarified that this should not be construed to mean that we are against the people of US. "I would like to salute them because the US people are not to blame for the barbarity and injustice of their rulers." That is the reason why Bush, a 'good friend of India' is hated by more than 67 percent of the citizens of US and also by the majority of people world over.

There are some other people who can tolerate criticism of imperialism but if the Left starts mobilising people they start panicking. Though they realise that imperialism cannot be fought just by shouting insults against it, they do not desire any active opposition to imperialism. As an African saying goes: "When your house is burning, it's no use beating the tom-toms." They do not want to allow the Left to stop the imperialist forces from 'burning our house'. The most intriguing fact is that one who has burnt the house and others who have helped him burn are left unscathed, while those who are risking their lives to save the house from getting burnt are questioned of their integrity.

Some of the 'powerful friends' of the US-both inside and outside of our country-have already unleashed a campaign saying that those who are opposed to the nuclear deal and strategic alliance with the US are not patriots. It is worthy to remember what Mahatma Gandhi had meant by patriotism. "By patriotism I mean the welfare of the whole people". The critics of the strategic alliance with the US are coming with lots of evidence to prove the disastrous affects of entering into such an arrangement. The proponents of the deal and alliance are not able to convincingly argue what welfare it does to the people. The hollowness of their claim of a gain in producing nuclear energy at the cost of compromising our country's defence, opening up of the finance sector, FDI in education, retail and insurance, is debated at many places and does not need a repetition here.

Commenting on the ruling classes in Latin America, Che stated, "Faced with the dilemma of choosing between the people and imperialism, the weak national bourgeoisie chooses imperialism and definitively betray their country." We should not let our ruling classes (though they might be different from the Latin American variants Che was referring to) betray the country. They should be reminded of the fate of all those betrayers and be warned to cater to the welfare of the people. Welfare of the people will be possible only when we protect our sovereignty, intellectual self-reliance, cater to the needs of the majority of the people and come out of the poisonous embrace of imperialism.

The present leaders of the 'grand old party of the country' who claim to inherit the legacy of the freedom struggle should ponder over their pro-imperialist policies. They have to remember what Nehru had said about imperialism. "If freedom was to be established in the world not only fascism and Nazism had to go, but imperialism had to be completely liquidated." If we value our freedom and want to protect it, we have to fight for the liquidation of imperialism. There are many people in our country who are fighting for their food, water, houses, clothes and above all for their existence. Through these struggles they are realising the link between the struggle for their basic demands and the anti-imperialist struggle.

All the attempts of the ruling classes to desist people from the path of the struggle are proving to be futile because people do not have short memory. They remember their historic legacy and draw inspiration from it. However hard the imperialism might try to erase the memory of the revolutionary heroes from popular consciousness, it is bound to fail in its endeavour. "Ernesto has died, but he had already been born into eternity. Death ended his journey, but opened the doors to the life he had so desired. The memory of Ernesto, his life, his struggle, will always live on in the hearts of the peoples of this world." For all the people who care for others and for a better tomorrow, Che will always be a rage and 'anti-imperialism' chic. Just wear it on your sleeves.


formatting improved - admin

OK here's some labels for ya...

"I know I'm worried about Black Hawk Helicopters using Chemung County airport as a base, too close to my mom in Painted Post, maybe too close to you Chlamor?"

- paranoid wight wing nutcase...oh, wait. I thought you said "black helicopters"

"I shop at thrift stores, but 'own' my house"

- lace curtain Irish

"I don't use deodorant (unless I'm really stinky) or wear makeup, but don't know what that has to do with political persuasion. "

- hippie chick

"I like my coffee flavored with milk"

- a lightweight

"I hate poverty, racism, and injustice."

- bleeding heart liberal

"I'm considered weird by 95% of my co workers, and I am loved by 95% of my students, and they tell me so."

- artist

"Liberal or Leftist? I don't know"

- POTENTIAL RECRUIT!!!!! lol

"I like to shoot a 22 rifle, and I'm a good shot, but I only want to hit soda cans."

- NRA gun nut AND a lightweight

"I am sincere, but feel like I'm looked at askance"

- just because you are paranoid that does not mean that they are not after you!

"I like my coffee flavored with milk"

!

I said I like my coffee coffee flavored,( Columbian is great, I hate hazlenut!! ) and I only use a drop of milk, no sugar, almost black!! I think thats pretty tough!javascript:emoticon(':wink:')

"I like my coffee flavored with milk"

!

I said I like my coffee coffee flavored,( Columbian is great, I hate hazlenut!! ) and I only use a drop of milk, no sugar, almost black!! I think thats pretty tough!javascript:emoticon(':wink:')

I like my coffee like I like my women.

Blonde and bitter :shock:

from retarded poster at RI:



Liberals cry out about mass murders.

Leftists worship mass murders like Che Guevara.


Your "friend" on RI has come up with a reading list that is a virtual Who's Who of worms, Fascists, CIA agents, right-wing nutjobs, and terrorists. He has even bypassed the handful of manufactured anti-Che "scholars" in order to list the simple propogandists. Admittedly, he is smart to just list them as "sources" rather than to actually quote them. In print, they are largely self-negating. Here is Humberto Fontova, who is the first on the list and a standing joke in South Florida:


Cuba was a nation of 6.5 million in 1959. Within three months in power, Castro and Che had shamed the Nazi prewar incarceration and murder rate. One defector claims that Che signed 500 death warrants, another says over 600. Cuban journalist Luis Ortega, who knew Che as early as 1954, writes in his book "Yo Soy El Che!" that Guevara sent 1,897 men to the firing squad. In his book "Che Guevara: A Biography," Daniel James writes that Che himself admitted to ordering "several thousand" executions during the first few years of the Castro regime.

So the scope of the mass murder is unclear. So the exact number of widows and orphans is in dispute. So the number of gagged and blindfolded men who Che sent – without trials – to be bound to a stake and blown apart by bullets runs from the hundreds to the thousands.

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/art ... 1252.shtml (http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/2/23/171252.shtml)

These very same people work diligently to inflate Cuban casualties during the one day CIA invasion at the Bay of Pigs, which they variously estimate as between 2 and 5 thousand. Of course, this does not shame "the Nazi prewar incarceration and murder rate".

These body count "debates" are ghoulish and stupid but they almost never can be avoided. These assholes quote each other without substantiation except for the rumors that they themselves create, mix in some impossible rhetoric and keep going. After a proper period, it is "fact". It is an old lesson...

http://www.streport.com/files/holocaust/pics/GOEBBELS.GIF

Excuse me on the "Stalinist" business, it was my understanding that Che, in his own words, called himself a Stalinist. I was only trying to convey that he was hard-fucking-core.

Sorry if I am overly "sensitive". "Stalinist" is part of the right-wing line on Che at the moment:

http://www.deanesmay.com/files/deanesmay-chetheterrorist2.JPG

Excuse me on the "Stalinist" business, it was my understanding that Che, in his own words, called himself a Stalinist. I was only trying to convey that he was hard-fucking-core.

Sorry if I am overly "sensitive". "Stalinist" is part of the right-wing line on Che at the moment:

http://www.deanesmay.com/files/deanesmay-chetheterrorist2.JPG

I once showed the 76 year old woman who works with me and knew nothing of him a picture of Che on the computer and she said, "That's as fine a looking man as I've ever seen." From the mouth of babes, indeed.

He is now fully prepared to write for the Washington Times.


Rightists = Elitists: those who believe that a select race, group of families, or other culturally defined group should hold political power over all others.

Leftists = Egalitarians: those who believe that all people are essentially equal and that laws and political systems should treat them so, ie equal access to government and equal in the "eyes of the law".

Liberal = Leftist reform(er).

Reactionary = Rightist reform(er).

Conservative = Anti-reform.

Authoritarian = Government should be centralized and powerful.

Libertarian = Government should be small with little impact in the lives of individual citizens.

Honestly, the ignorance is so deep...

Not only did he not get a single one right but the poster was so proud that he wanted to share it with the world.
May I propose the following alternatives...

Rightists = People in power in Capitalist societies.
Conservatives = People in power in Capitalist societies who prefer an even more onerous form of that power.
Reactionaries = People in power in Capitalist societies who prefer the most onerous possible form of that power.
Liberals = People who shill for people in power in Capitalist societies.
Libertarians = What people in power in Capitalist societies call themselves.
Authoritarians = What people in power in Capitalist societies call everyone else.

Middle-class Confusoids - People who entirely miss what is going on but think it has something to do with "liberty", "authority", or somethin' about "equal access to government and equal in the 'eyes of the law'".

Leftists = People who want to overthrow all of the above, sending them hurtling into the Stratosphere, while poking their fingers into the "eyes of the law".
.

I once showed the 76 year old woman who works with me and knew nothing of him a picture of Che on the computer and she said, "That's as fine a looking man as I've ever seen." From the mouth of babes, indeed.

You know who's even finer lookin than Che? The dude who played him in the Motorcycle Diaries :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v327/meganmonkey/diaries1.jpg

I once showed the 76 year old woman who works with me and knew nothing of him a picture of Che on the computer and she said, "That's as fine a looking man as I've ever seen." From the mouth of babes, indeed.

You know who's even finer lookin than Che? The dude who played him in the Motorcycle Diaries :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v327/meganmonkey/diaries1.jpg

The dude in the background looks blond and bitter.

The dude in the background looks blond and bitter.

Isn't that redundant?

I once showed the 76 year old woman who works with me and knew nothing of him a picture of Che on the computer and she said, "That's as fine a looking man as I've ever seen." From the mouth of babes, indeed.

You know who's even finer lookin than Che? The dude who played him in the Motorcycle Diaries :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v327/meganmonkey/diaries1.jpg

The dude in the background looks blond and bitter.

You'd be bitter too if you were Hot Sexy Che's sidekick.

Plus, I like my women blonde and bitter. I prefer my men dark and moody and brooding.

"I like my coffee flavored with milk"

!

I said I like my coffee coffee flavored,( Columbian is great, I hate hazlenut!! ) and I only use a drop of milk, no sugar, almost black!! I think thats pretty tough!javascript:emoticon(':wink:')

Oh I get it. I thought it was a typo.

:oops:

"I like my coffee flavored with milk"

!

I said I like my coffee coffee flavored,( Columbian is great, I hate hazlenut!! ) and I only use a drop of milk, no sugar, almost black!! I think thats pretty tough!javascript:emoticon(':wink:')

Oh I get it. I thought it was a typo.

:oops:

I figured!! actually just trying to catch you up!javascript:emoticon(':wink:')

I once showed the 76 year old woman who works with me and knew nothing of him a picture of Che on the computer and she said, "That's as fine a looking man as I've ever seen." From the mouth of babes, indeed.

You know who's even finer lookin than Che? The dude who played him in the Motorcycle Diaries :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v327/meganmonkey/diaries1.jpg

The dude in the background looks blond and bitter.

You'd be bitter too if you were Hot Sexy Che's sidekick.

Plus, I like my women blonde and bitter. I prefer my men dark and moody and brooding.

That beats the Hayak pix hands down!

Livin’ in South Florida, I can testify that Che missed more than a few…

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/ca/CheInCongo.jpg
Che in the Congo

Thanks Anax and Kid for all the stuff, sorry to take so long here, interesting, I did see the movie, BTW!javascript:emoticon(':wink:')