Note- here is another section of the thread that Mairead tried to disappear. - Mike

The Koochie Kiddies who disrupted PI have been busy around the Internet, and I caught them tag teaming to post some propaganda that I traced back to the Republican National Committee. There is a pattern here - posing as Kucinich supporters (easy to fool the Koochies I am afraid - very trusting and naive) posting RNC talking points with links to newly created blogs that echo the points and link back to that "youth activist" site.

I am on their trail, but they know I am onto them.

The Koochie Kiddies who disrupted PI have been busy around the Internet, and I caught them tag teaming to post some propaganda that I traced back to the Republican National Committee. There is a pattern here - posing as Kucinich supporters (easy to fool the Koochies I am afraid - very trusting and naive) posting RNC talking points with links to newly created blogs that echo the points and link back to that "youth activist" site.

I am on their trail, but they know I am onto them.

Post some links if you don't mind.

I'm very curious about this kind of "guerilla warfare" that is developing on the web (yes, I saw it first hand at DU).

.

I don't know if Tinoire was taken in by those folks or not - strange deference to them - don't know if people here have been taken in by Tinoire or not, so I don't know if what I say here will get back to them. Don't even now if I should be saying that or thinking that - but there I said it.

The Koochie Kids have slipped here and there - mentioning how they voted in the past, for example - oooops, they are supposed to be kids who can't vote.

"Anne1" has posted nothing but vicious anti-Obama tracts for days now. She tag-teams with an "Alex" who has posted about the youth activists (as a member) and linked to that site that they were always referrring to at PI. Then this tonight:

Why Obama is unelectable (http://kucinich.us/node/4216)

"She" says "Don't shoot the messenger. The following is quoted from the National Journal." yeah, an article there debunking the charges.

She also says "One of the liberal bloggers has really taken Obama apart."

Trouble is, that blog - Political Lying Liars (http://politicallyingliars.blogspot.com/) seems to be nothing but a convenient reference to link to as a source for the smear campaign.

And what does that blog link to as its source? The infamous "youth activist" site that spawned the disruptors at PI -

Creative Youth (http://creativeyouth.net/)

The same person has created two other blogs, and neither of them have anything going on except attacks on Obama in one case, and one brief post about Iran in another.

Watch Out (http://watchoutlist.blogspot.com/)

Disinformation Watch (http://disinformationwatch.blogspot.com/)

A quote: So if Obama, Edwards, Clinton or Richardson are elected President are using disinformation to push America towards war with Iran, how are they better than George W. Bush?

The talking points themselves? From the RNC.

RNC To Blast Obama As "Fabricator" (http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2007/04/rnc_to_blast_ob.html)

Barack Obama will guest on CBS' "The Late Show With David Letterman" tonight. He "shares the star billing" with actress Halle Berry (Sweet, Chicago Sun-Times, 4/9).

The RNC will blast e-mail "Obama's Top Ten Fabrications" to the press later today. (We'll add that these are "alleged" fabrications, and some of them are... a bit of a stretch.)

Responds Obama comm. dir. Bill Burton: "If the Republican Party would like for this race to come down to Obama’s vision versus how fast Obama picked up Indonesian as a child, I like our chances. It’s probably disappointing to their supporters but I myself very much enjoy how they’re spending their time over there."

From the Anonymous Liberal (http://www.anonymousliberal.com/)

Timed to coincide with Obama's appearance on David Letterman tonight, the RNC has issued a blast-email entitled "Obama's Top Ten Fabrications." The RNC is clearly attempting to plant the seeds of a press narrative here. Ideally, they'd like to see journalists start covering Obama in the same way they covered Al Gore in 1999-2000, when everything Gore said (and even a lot of things he didn't say) was hyper-scrutinized and offered up by lazy, narrative-driven mainstream journalists as further evidence of Gore's pathological need to embellish the truth. The press corps' coverage of Gore during campaign 2000 was a low point in modern journalistic history rivaled only by the coverage surrounding the lead up to the Iraq invasion, so it's no wonder than the hacks at the RNC oppo-research shop have dreams of recreating that perfect storm of deception, laziness, and idiocy.

But if they hope to recreate the magic of 2000, they're going to have to try a little harder. The list of Obama's supposed "fabrications" is so totally unconvincing that it actually makes you wonder if Obama is some sort of Abe Lincoln like figure.

From the Democratic Daily (http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/)

The Fabricators Fabricate
Posted by Pamela Leavey
April 10th, 2007 @ 12:58 am

Oh my this is laughable: RNC To Blast Obama As “Fabricator.”

The we’ll say anything, lie and cheat to win political party is at it again. This time they’ve fabricated some purported “fabrications” made by Obama that even Hotline is calling a “stretch.”

From Liberal Values (http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?cat=42)

Obama’s Top Ten Fabrications As Created By The RNC

Hotline-on-Call has posted Obama’s Top Ten Fabrications, invented by the Republican National Committee in preparation for Barack Obama’s scheduled appearance on David Letterman’s show. If this is the best they can do, the RNC is slipping. They’ve invented far better lies in the past. Sooner or later we’ll hear from the Obama Class Mates For Truth and get the real dirt (even if invented). Despite the claim of fabrications here, I suspect that if you take two old class mates as adults and ask them their perceptions of what happened during their school years, you will get two different stories and both will pass a polygraph test.

It is hardly worth going through the full list. The top Obama fabrication deals with the story Obama said he read in Life but couldn’t be found. It does appear to be true that the article Obama mentioned did not appear in Life. It turns out that similar stories appeared in both Time and Look. I guess everyone will have to decide for themselves if they can vote for a man who would confuse Time and Life magazines. Then they can consider a President who confused Iraq for the people behind the 9/11 attack and went to war against the wrong country. Apparently some of the current GOP candidates even backed that decision.

Very interesting... It is right out in the open.

What do you think the objective is in putting out disinformation this way? Is it an attempt to use the Kucinich campaign to put out a left rumor/slander mill on the "leading candidates"? ...like the PA Greens in 2006? ...or is something more subtle going on?

Why PI?

What are you thinking about Tinoire (you don't have to answer this one)?

.

FWIW, Kucinich was supposedly going to make an appearance on PI once upon a time. I don't know if that's still in the works or not, DKs 'campaign' is in such shambles I doubt anything is concrete with him.

The whole thing is so bizarre and if I wasn't taking it (relatively) seriously, I'd just label it comedy of the absurd and move on.

As a novice at this, more and more I'm realizing that people on PI (and DU, DKos, etc and their real life parallels of county/city/etc meetings) aren't "people", they're fulfilling prescribed roles. Fuck.

Yesterday this thread had four pages, including a carefully reasoned post by me. Today it has only one page, and my post is among the material that has disappeared. What happened?

Yesterday this thread had four pages, including a carefully reasoned post by me. Today it has only one page, and my post is among the material that has disappeared. What happened?

Wonder if Maired dumped it into the trash forum I (we) cannot see? Since she an Mike we at loggerheads, maybe that is the case.

I wasn't too concerned about them having at one another a little bit in the non-public threads. After all, once we have fucked up and uncorked the bottle that they we intended as (by me, anyway), then why not?

Yesterday this thread had four pages, including a carefully reasoned post by me. Today it has only one page, and my post is among the material that has disappeared. What happened?

Wonder if Maired dumped it into the trash forum I (we) cannot see? Since she an Mike we at loggerheads, maybe that is the case.

I wasn't too concerned about them having at one another a little bit in the non-public threads. After all, once we have fucked up and uncorked the bottle that they we intended as (by me, anyway), then why not?
Yes, it's in the trash forum, which I set up so that everyone can moderate it as per usual...only I forgot to add it to the group's list, so in fact nobody could see the curséd thing. But once Rusty mentioned that he couldn't see it, I realised I'd goofed something up and immediately fixed it. So, Wolf, please feel free to move your post back to this thread. I would do it myself, but the tools provided by the software are too meager--it would end up becoming 'my' post.

Yesterday this thread had four pages, including a carefully reasoned post by me. Today it has only one page, and my post is among the material that has disappeared. What happened?

Wonder if Maired dumped it into the trash forum I (we) cannot see? Since she an Mike we at loggerheads, maybe that is the case.

I wasn't too concerned about them having at one another a little bit in the non-public threads. After all, once we have fucked up and uncorked the bottle that they we intended as (by me, anyway), then why not?
Yes, it's in the trash forum, which I set up so that everyone can moderate it as per usual...only I forgot to add it to the group's list, so in fact nobody could see the curséd thing. But once Rusty mentioned that he couldn't see it, I realised I'd goofed something up and immediately fixed it. So, Wolf, please feel free to move your post back to this thread. I would do it myself, but the tools provided by the software are too meager--it would end up becoming 'my' post.

well that meager (and yes, it is) tool certainly drives us to pursue agreement -kinda a power check! heh

(Slightly revised 19 April 2007)

Sadly, this question -- posed by Mairead in a portion of this discussion that has since been tossed into the "Trash" folder -- seems to accurately reflect the ultimate cynicism of the U.S. attitude toward politics -- not just the superficial alienation of the Hopeless Majority ("why would anyone care about politics? We can watch Britney Spears and Paris Hilton and medicate our frustrations by fantasizing about what they might do together“), but the underlying scorn of the Platonic intellectual elite for our (oft-betrayed) Constitutional processes and even democracy in general: "politics is nothing but an idiot's tale, full of sound and fury, so why trouble our beautiful minds?” At least that is the sense I get of what Mairead is saying -- the expression of a profound alienation I myself too often share.

But beyond the fact it demonstrates the near-omnipotence of the ruling class, the significance of infiltration attempts (and in fact dezinformatsiya and all the other spookery as well) is that such efforts lay bare not just the reality but the methodology of our oppression -- and are therefore a vital study in both the development of tactical countermeasures and the shaping of an adequate strategic (hence ideological) response to the underlying crisis.

The mere fact the ruling class is ever more frequently resorting to infiltration and other such clandestine or semi-clandestine methods is proof of the degree to which it feels threatened -- particularly by the possibility the celebrity-sedated hopelessness of the American people might yet give way to politically focused anger -- however much that anger might then be co-opted by political treachery.

What is new here, by the way, is not the methodology itself: political dirty tricks are as old as the human penchant for political organization. What is new is the magnitude of the effort: so huge that even relatively insignificant groups like PI are targeted (never mind the fact I have long suspected PI itself is a false-flag operation, run for just the purpose of using democracy against itself -- that is, by encouraging the more thoughtful and articulate radicals to reveal ourselves and thus be identified for eventual internment).

And obviously the Democrats are rightfully our focus. The Republican Party with its exclusive and unapologetic representation of the ruling class has all but declared itself the modern-day U.S. equivalent of Mussolini’s fascists (if not Hitler’s Nazis), so it is patently absurd to scrutinize Republican affairs for evidence of infiltration: why would the ruling class infiltrate that which is already both its wholly owned subsidiary and its executive-action agency? Indeed the very fact the Democrats are so overwhelmingly targeted by infiltrators (and myriad other sorts of spookery) proves the proverbial fix is not yet totally in place -- that there is still some room for hope.

Meanwhile the sullen refusal of the U.S. citizenry to organize an effective alternate-party movement again makes it painfully clear the Democrats offer us our only possibility for significant reform or transformation. (The only exception to the alternate-party failure-syndrome was the Communist Party during the 1930s -- the third largest political group in U.S. history and by far the best organized -- which as part of the Popular Front put Franklin Delano Roosevelt into office and kept him there until 1945.) Meanwhile today’s Greens offer no alternative at all; dominated from top to bottom by the yuppie bourgeoisie, they are anti-labor to the core -- in their own way no less viciously elitist than the Republicans.

By way of full disclosure, I have very reluctantly come to endorse the Democrats as our only practical, possible hope for 2008. The bottomless anti-political bias of the U.S. citizenry -- its defiant refusal to organize around anything more significant than emotional fads -- leaves us with no other choice. And yes, I am fully aware of the Democratic Party’s huge and outrageous penchant for betraying us all, as in Carter’s 1977 declaration of war against the poor -- especially our right to reproductive choice (see link below). The Clintons are even more treacherous: note their total repudiation of the New Deal and all its values, a repudiation demonstrated not only in the euthanasia-by-neglect of “welfare reform” but in their support for downsizing, outsourcing and the Global Sweatshop Economy. The Clintons’ treachery is even more apparent in the remarkably cunning scheme by which they forever discredited single-payer healthcare -- thus guaranteeing in perpetuity the obscene profits of the insurance barons, the hospital aristocracy and the prescription drug lords.

Though I am still deeply troubled by John Edwards’ apparent involvement in the campaign by First National City Bank of New York (aka “Citibank”) to peddle high-interest credit cards to the poor, the fact remains he is the only candidate who has dared urge resurrection and fulfillment of the New Deal. The following is from a news report featured on his website: Edwards called for a massive public-works program to rebuild ravaged parts of Louisiana and Mississippi, modeled after President Franklin Roosevelt's New Deal initiatives during the Depression.

Having grown up with the New Deal, I know just what the revisionist historians of both the Right and the pseudo-Left would suppress and therby have us forget: that the New Deal was in fact a non-violent revolution -- the grafting of the historical truth of class struggle onto singularly American principles of Constitutional governance -- with full recognition that though capitalism is bottomless greed elevated to ultimate virtue, it cannot be exterminated but instead must be caged and controlled like the viciously predatory monster it is.

It is the ruling class terror that Edwards or some other candidate will resurrect such values (and perhaps even bring them to full crimson flower) that motivates the infiltration efforts we are discussing here. Indeed -- to re-emphasize what I already said -- these efforts are not only worthy of tactical and strategic study; they also prove we yet have reason to hope.

The promised link to Time magazine’s report on Carter’s breathtaking fuck-you betrayal of the poor is here:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/artic ... 76,00.html (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,915176,00.html)

(My apologies for my long absence from this site. My personal life has become truly overwhelming -- this time in an entirely positive way.)

I bash Kucinich and Obama all the time. Dem party bashers infiltrating are little more than Clintonitas.

Something wrong with that?

And I don't think it is too paranoid to note that Tin pulled down her pants and snarled about socialists when she wanted to fly the Kucinich banner. She got downright nasty and no matter what platitudes she preaches she still hasn't accepted accountability in the purge.

I don't know. Am I the only one seeing this? It seems so obviously manufactured and orchestrated. If this isn't a classic example of a disinformation campaign, and we aren't able to see it, then what would be and how would we ever see it?

Here is the same gang at work again:

Trolls are taking over websites and some are becoming moderators (http://www.progressiveindependent.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=202&topic_id=2274)

It isn't "Clintonistas." It isn't business as usual same old same old.

They aren't "criticizing Obama and Edwards" - that is so obviously a cover. They are working, working, working and using every tactic right out of the COINTELPRO handbook.

They aren't promoting Kucinich and they aren't "youth activists" - those are cover. Just because they say they are Kucinich supporters, and say they are criticizing certain politicians, and say they are youth activists does not make any of that true. None of that DOES ring true, if you look at it at all and give it some thought.

It is also perfect cover for infiltrators to accuse others of being infiltrators - that is called snitchjacketing, and if what we are seeing isn't snitchjacketing I don't know what the Hell would be.

I am not certain of this, of course, but damn folks, look at it at least and consider what I am saying. Don't tell me there is nothing there.

http://www.progressiveindependent.com/d ... opic_id=37 (http://www.progressiveindependent.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=217&topic_id=37)

If it walks like a duck.........

This is another section of the thread that Mairead broke apart and put in a hidden forum.

New people - this thread was central to a bitter feud when PopIndy first started that came close to sabotaging the project before it could get rolling. Mairead was not someone whom any of us, other than myself, had ever encountered. I had seen her disrupting two other boards a couple of years ago. She (?) somehow found us when we first started (claiming to have been watching the trouble at PI, though she never posted there) and immediately took a very active (and contentious) role on the board.

New people - this thread was central to a bitter feud when PopIndy first started that came close to sabotaging the project before it could get rolling. Mairead was not someone whom any of us, other than myself, had ever encountered. I had seen her disrupting two other boards a couple of years ago. She (?) somehow found us when we first started (claiming to have been watching the trouble at PI, though she never posted there) and immediately took a very active (and contentious) role on the board.

Interesting. I never saw these Busted/Kucinich threads.

I don't know if I couldn't access them, they disappeared, or they happened after I walked away in frustration from "progressive" "independent" "populist" "leftist" "woohoo" bullshit forums?

Mairead was not someone whom any of us, other than myself, had ever encountered.

I see she still appears in the member list. Is her account still active?

Mairead was not someone whom any of us, other than myself, had ever encountered.

I see she still appears in the member list. Is her account still active?

No one ever did anything to officially remove her or force her to leave, she got in a confrontation with Mike or Anax I think, it didn't end well, she stormed off never to be heard from again. My guess is she's ghosted on here since then, but who knows.

BTW, the reason for posting these now is that I just recently became aware of their existence. My admin permisions were revoked back during this feud and just recently restored. There was a forum "trash" created by Mairead that was invisible to me until recently.

BTW, the reason for posting these now is that I just recently became aware of their existence. My admin permisions were revoked back during this feud and just recently restored. There was a forum "trash" created by Mairead that was invisible to me until recently.

Its interesting to read, I'm learning alot about forums here, "snitch'jacketing", and the list of ways to know an infiltrater; I think I recognize some of those traits in others from the other site. It really is a virtual realty here. Too bad theres no place totally safe from selfish people. Peace. Mary

Its interesting to read, I'm learning alot about forums here, "snitch'jacketing", and the list of ways to know an infiltrater; I think I recognize some of those traits in others from the other site. It really is a virtual realty here. Too bad theres no place totally safe from selfish people. Peace. Mary

It's a slippery slope. Especially for forums newbies (relatively) such as myself. An initial interest in "politics" and "what's wrong with our representatives?" leads to a clusterfuck of online red herring discussions designed to do nothing more than shift the focus of the original interest. And core groups of yadayada yackers play the same game, over and over. Some sophisticated, some quite transparent.

Ultimately it seems like an effort from both the "left" and the "right" to distract, redirect, and silence the working classes.