We have a bunch of people expressing views hostile to Labor and in support of Reaganomics this morning, right out in the open. The more clear this is, the better I think.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8381962

The German Metal Workers Union got talked into taking board seats and stock in numerous German companies in the 1970s. The practical effect was that it was the Union officers who had to explain to the workers about lay-offs and wage/benefit cuts.

Practical economics, doncha see? Economic reality is a force of nature, doncha know?

What a bunch of corporate tools... A "good deal for the UAW'... fuck me.

Sorry I'm away on this one.

The Democratic Party reverts to it's pre-1932 self in entirity. It's of a piece with the Arlen Spector fandango, the reactionaries parade triumphant, but it's OK cause they're not Republicans.

The Democratic Party is going to have some serious problems real soon, largely thanks to Obama.

We have a bunch of people expressing views hostile to Labor and in support of Reaganomics this morning, right out in the open. The more clear this is, the better I think.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8381962


Insane..their entire premise is "well first the company needs to make money and then if theres anything left, that can go to the workers". But somehow they're still "pro-labor" which I guess has been changed to be synonymous with boot-licking and/or toadying

The German Metal Workers Union got talked into taking board seats and stock in numerous German companies in the 1970s. The practical effect was that it was the Union officers who had to explain to the workers about lay-offs and wage/benefit cuts.

Practical economics, doncha see? Economic reality is a force of nature, doncha know?

What a bunch of corporate tools... A "good deal for the UAW'... fuck me.

Sorry I'm away on this one.




Fuckers voted down a totally indadequate mortgage assistance bill in the Senate yesterday. The bill allowed (not that they need to be allowed) bankruptcy judges to do cramdowns on mortgages that were in trouble, THUS KEEPING PEOPLE IN THEIR HOMES.

That wasn't adequate because the judges had the option and not all mortgage holders could get to bankruptcy court. Durbin (D-IL) watered it down to this:

"The latest proposal would have restricted eligibility to homeowners already in foreclosure whose lender had not offered them better terms. Homes would also have to be worth less than $729,000 and apply to mortgage loans originated before 2009." URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30503750/

But NO, the august(us) Senators wouldn't even buy that.

10 loser Democrats crossed over to the dark side.

House passed original (but inadequate) bill on party line vote.

WHAT A BUNCH OF ASSHOLES!!!

Fuck.

Can't believe that I am more or less on my own on that thread with a gaggle of supply siders and anti-Union people.

God, Mike, what a bunch of assholes. I posted a few things, but honestly I've been avoiding that site this week because it just seems like such a lost cause.

Fuck.

Can't believe that I am more or less on my own on that thread with a gaggle of supply siders and anti-Union people.


Maybe I missed it because I could only read so much, but how about mentioning that Obama set an executive pay cap at 500,000 back in February for the auto companies. How come none of the du-h-ers made the comparison between about $250 an hour to the $14 an hour for the new hires, and that's assuming its a 40 hour week for the executive...gee, that means the new hires would gross $30 more in a week than the exec does in an hour!! and those labor people are calling foul...

Fuck.

Can't believe that I am more or less on my own on that thread with a gaggle of supply siders and anti-Union people.


They are such gutless motherfuckers. Rather than even thinking about taking a stand vs the boss/management or fighting for what matters they grovel "Please give us back our jobs that those dirty Indians , Chinese, and Mexicans stole"

And even most "leftists" are totally sucked in by this right wing bullshit with all sorts of contrived arguments about "legality" and so forth

It's all about class, the arrogance and entitlement on display:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5588008

83 recs, it's all the sheeple's fault, if only those lazy fucks had the gumption to be like 'us'.

Massive purge going on at DU overnight, a couple of dozen at least banned, and deletion of hundreds of posts. Didn't know if you guys were aware of it.

Massive purge going on at DU overnight, a couple of dozen at least banned, and deletion of hundreds of posts. Didn't know if you guys were aware of it.


Had no idea. Gimme a link, please. Lese Majeste?

Massive purge going on at DU overnight, a couple of dozen at least banned, and deletion of hundreds of posts. Didn't know if you guys were aware of it.


Had no idea. Gimme a link, please. Lese Majeste?


Don't know what to link to - everything is gone lol.

When I try to post now, it is deleted with no trace in less than a minute, so I assume I am being watched.

People questioning it or referring to the purge are getting immediately banned.

I posted this, and it was deleted in about 30 seconds -

a very sad day

The harp that once through Tara's halls
The soul of music shed,
Now hangs as mute on Tara's walls
As if that soul were fled.
So sleeps the pride of former days,
So glory's thrill is o'er,
And hearts that once beat high for praise
Now feel that praise no more.

No more to chiefs and ladies bright,
The harp of Tara swells;
The chord alone, that breaks at night,
Its tale of ruin tells.
Thus Freedom now so seldom wakes,
The only throb she gives
Is when some heart indignant breaks,
To show that still she lives.

Massive purge going on at DU overnight, a couple of dozen at least banned, and deletion of hundreds of posts. Didn't know if you guys were aware of it.


Had no idea. Gimme a link, please. Lese Majeste?


Don't know what to link to - everything is gone lol.

When I try to post now, it is deleted with no trace in less than a minute, so I assume I am being watched.

People questioning it or referring to the purge are getting immediately banned.

I posted this, and it was deleted in about 30 seconds -

a very sad day

The harp that once through Tara's halls
The soul of music shed,
Now hangs as mute on Tara's walls
As if that soul were fled.
So sleeps the pride of former days,
So glory's thrill is o'er,
And hearts that once beat high for praise
Now feel that praise no more.

No more to chiefs and ladies bright,
The harp of Tara swells;
The chord alone, that breaks at night,
Its tale of ruin tells.
Thus Freedom now so seldom wakes,
The only throb she gives
Is when some heart indignant breaks,
To show that still she lives.




That's bizarre, that was innocuous enough. I'm afraid your problem is that you're too persuasive and well liked. I don't have that problem. Sounds as though you got one or more mods gunning for you. As distasteful as it is you might appeal to Skinner. I did see some ts's on the 'blame the boomers' thread, a perennial favorite, can't imagine how that happened.

That's bizarre, that was innocuous enough. I'm afraid your problem is that you're too persuasive and well liked. I don't have that problem. Sounds as though you got one or more mods gunning for you. As distasteful as it is you might appeal to Skinner. I did see some ts's on the 'blame the boomers' thread, a perennial favorite, can't imagine how that happened.


Ah, OK, you didn't see Skinner's "fuck you" post then?

That's bizarre, that was innocuous enough. I'm afraid your problem is that you're too persuasive and well liked. I don't have that problem. Sounds as though you got one or more mods gunning for you. As distasteful as it is you might appeal to Skinner. I did see some ts's on the 'blame the boomers' thread, a perennial favorite, can't imagine how that happened.


Ah, OK, you didn't see Skinner's "fuck you" post then?


Is that something new? I saw that one about what is 'allowable' and what is not, other than not allowing 'lese majeste' I didn't find much in that to worry about, actually seemed to come down harder on the 'hounds', civility and all.

New, yes. Will dig it up.

A mod posted a STFU thread about dissenters, and a bunch of us argued and asked if this was official policy? Skinner posted a STFU message finally, the thread is gone, and a bunch of people were banned.

I read on Progressive Independent that they are banning the GLBT folks. I didn't see it - I hadn't posted over the weekend. Marrah got banned - she also supported Hillary. I've been on there very little lately. If it's just a big pep rally for Obama now I really have no use for it.

New, yes. Will dig it up.

A mod posted a STFU thread about dissenters, and a bunch of us argued and asked if this was official policy? Skinner posted a STFU message finally, the thread is gone, and a bunch of people were banned.


I'm going to hazard a guess that it's this thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8387513&mesg_id=8387513 -- which isn't gone, but just a ways down the front page on GD:P. One of the most consistantly obnoxious posters just had to put his 2 cents in at 2:19pm today.

Oh well. It's really no big surprise that DU has become insufferable. I've been there almost 8 years, and except for the early months when the membership was under 10,000, lefties have always been subject to condemnation and derision.

There's nothing worse than a bunch of self-righteous liberals, and since the election of Obama they pretty much run DU.

Ugh,
sw

That is one of the threads, yes, the other ones were about the Chrysler deal.

Confirmed kills so far:

Yardwork, Vanje, LaBlue, Solon, Marrah, Sun Dog, Techbear, Zuiderelle, dbackjon, Maven

Others, like me, are having their posts deleted as soon as we post.

Wow, things are hot over there. Look for me over there..I'll be Tyrfing this time around

That is one of the threads, yes, the other ones were about the Chrysler deal.

Confirmed kills so far:

Yardwork, Vanje, LaBlue, Solon, Marrah, Sun Dog, Techbear, Zuiderelle, dbackjon, Maven

Others, like me, are having their posts deleted as soon as we post.


Oh man, not Yardwork! Wow, that sucks! The rest of them aren't that familiar to me except Marrah -- although I recognize most (but not all) of the names.

Cripes, DU is getting worse than high school. I hated high school. Bleecchhh!

Techbear had some good posts, I recall him, Yardwork, and Marrah of course. The others I didn't know.

Have fun, kid. PM me over here if you need me to rec some posts. I'm rarely there anymore but it looks like I'm still active.

New, yes. Will dig it up.

A mod posted a STFU thread about dissenters, and a bunch of us argued and asked if this was official policy? Skinner posted a STFU message finally, the thread is gone, and a bunch of people were banned.


I'm going to hazard a guess that it's this thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8387513&mesg_id=8387513 -- which isn't gone, but just a ways down the front page on GD:P. One of the most consistantly obnoxious posters just had to put his 2 cents in at 2:19pm today.

Oh well. It's really no big surprise that DU has become insufferable. I've been there almost 8 years, and except for the early months when the membership was under 10,000, lefties have always been subject to condemnation and derision.

There's nothing worse than a bunch of self-righteous liberals, and since the election of Obama they pretty much run DU.

Ugh,
sw



"The document contains no data.", as per your link. Ain't that somethin'?
Scrubbed, looks to me. Ah well, like to have seen that, though not seeing the 'offending' post ya can't really see how bad it is, anyway.

Solon been around since before the beginning, never struck me as a radical, wtf goin' on there?

Several members from 2001 were zapped.

"The document contains no data.", as per your link. Ain't that somethin'?
Scrubbed, looks to me. Ah well, like to have seen that, though not seeing the 'offending' post ya can't really see how bad it is, anyway.


Hmm, I just clicked on the link and the thread is still there.

Several members from 2001 were zapped.


Geeze. Vanje was an early member, too, I see. Both Vanje and Solon have lower registration numbers than I do. I'm really shocked -- like BP I never saw them as wild radicals.

Maybe DU is looking to get rid of the oldsters who remember what it was like to be able to speak freely.

Major doctoring of the threads is going on. Even complimentary remarks about the banned posters - in the lounge! - are being deleted. Threads are disappearing and then showing back up. About 2/3 of my posts from the last few days are gone.

BP I found Skinner's fuck you message -

Now, for some reason, a small number of people are going to an a substantial amount of effort trying to twist this OP into something it isn't, and I'm wondering why exactly they would go to the time and trouble to do that. But whatever the reason, it's made me decide to dust off this rule:

Your Freedom to Leave

All visitors to the Democratic Underground website are here voluntarily. Nobody is forcing you to post on this message board. The administrators try their best to be fair, and to make Democratic Underground a welcoming place for progressives who like Democratic Underground and who want to be here. If you do not like Democratic Underground, or the members of Democratic Underground, or the way we run Democratic Underground, then we strongly suggest that you exercise your right to leave. If we decide that you do not like this place very much, then we reserve the right to show you the door ourselves.

Now that is a shot across the bow, and one which some of you would be wise to pay attention to.

Immediately after that post, and the deletion of almost all of the thread, people started getting banned.

The "shot across the bow" thing was a quote from one of my posts, by the way.

The "shot across the bow" thing was a quote from one of my posts, by the way.

Yes, I do remember that. They are awfully confident about pushing leftists out ... guess they don't want our votes next time. Like you said at the beginning of this thread, it's good to have it out in the open. Much better that way, in fact.

It's pretty silly to call it "Underground" anymore. Or maybe "Orwellian" is a better term.

I remember when the term "underground" meant dissent from the accepted order. That in no way describes DU these days.

sw

It's pretty silly to call it "Underground" anymore. Or maybe "Orwellian" is a better term.

I remember when the term "underground" meant dissent from the accepted order. That in no way describes DU these days.

sw


They built the joint on Fear of Fascism (or fear of flying, or whatever). Both its popularity and its breadth were constructed out of a growing opposition to Bush and Company, and fear for the survival of the broad spectrum of Liberal, Left and Radical opinions. What is bothering them now is the commercial aspect of their business. Support for Obama increases registrations and main stream support but it ruins the draw. How many times can one repeat how good looking Obama is before people tune out from sheer boredom?

Controversy is the steam engine which drives the place but also, ironically, undermines "net roots" as an emerging political power... The "leftists" always talk better - its in their nature.

"Democratic"... pfft... Who gives a shit about that?

Its the "Underground" part that gives it weight.

Dis guy is trying to walk a tightrope which doesn't exist.

"The document contains no data.", as per your link. Ain't that somethin'?
Scrubbed, looks to me. Ah well, like to have seen that, though not seeing the 'offending' post ya can't really see how bad it is, anyway.


Hmm, I just clicked on the link and the thread is still there.


My bad, indeed it is. Mebbe something to do with the crummy machine and service I have at home.

That's some heavy handed shit. Doubt will not be tolerated, you must have faith.

Just what they were accusing freepers of, not so long ago. Give 'em an 'A' for shutzpah.

Controversy is the steam engine which drives the place but also, ironically, undermines "net roots" as an emerging political power...

Maybe that's the whole point. It could've started out as a simple oasis for dems looking to talk after Bush won, but then slowly morphed into something else. Whether intentional (accepting certain support that has an interest in killing those net roots), or unintentional, it is now neither democratic nor underground. I always liked that there was a large membership & constant influx of news, but with that membership morphing into a modern convention of the Stepford Wives I've pretty much lost interest.

Been meaning to comment here.

Been wondering who ever thought the mask was on?

Been also wonderin' here how or why it is you can claim to be an Obama supporter.

Not gonna drag up the thread where you expressly stated that Mike but I'm wonderin' about it. You see it leaves me scratchin' my head and adds to the confusion I have as to how you could have ever been so strongly supportive of Edwards.

Even moreso I'm a wonderin' how it is that you could be supportive of the Democratic Party period. Any faction or portion of it. They are so obviously only useful for the ruling class in keeping radical elements in check that it confounds me how you could even begin to rationalize such things knowing what you know.

So yeah Mike it is just a useless plaint to whisper about some imagined mask comig off. This has all been so fuckin' obvious for years what's goin' on?

I read on Progressive Independent that they are banning the GLBT folks.


Sort of true. They killed a few birds with one stone there.

Been meaning to comment here.

Been wondering who ever thought the mask was on?

Been also wonderin' here how or why it is you can claim to be an Obama supporter.

Not gonna drag up the thread where you expressly stated that Mike but I'm wonderin' about it. You see it leaves me scratchin' my head and adds to the confusion I have as to how you could have ever been so strongly supportive of Edwards.

Even moreso I'm a wonderin' how it is that you could be supportive of the Democratic Party period. Any faction or portion of it. They are so obviously only useful for the ruling class in keeping radical elements in check that it confounds me how you could even begin to rationalize such things knowing what you know.

So yeah Mike it is just a useless plaint to whisper about some imagined mask comig off. This has all been so fuckin' obvious for years what's goin' on?



Hmmm.

Two questions -

What would you call the deception? Mask seems like a good word. People are lying. When you can force their lies out into the open, that unmasks them I think.

Who are "the Democrats?"

Yeah but Chlams, you make it sound like theres a moral high ground. DU is their playing field right? So by that logic posting there at all is kind of a concession.

I think what Mike is doing there is useful if not wildly productive (not looking to debate the point). Not every situation calls for or demands a homily, no matter how warranted.

I don't know if its an axiom but sometimes you give a little to get a little. Has Mike actually surrendered his principles or given ground? Not from where I'm standing.

Yeah but Chlams, you make it sound like theres a moral high ground. DU is their playing field right? So by that logic posting there at all is kind of a concession.

I think what Mike is doing there is useful if not wildly productive (not looking to debate the point). Not every situation calls for or demands a homily, no matter how warranted.

I don't know if its an axiom but sometimes you give a little to get a little. Has Mike actually surrendered his principles or given ground? Not from where I'm standing.


That's not what I'm talking about. Nothing to do with morality in any way.

Mike says "I support Obama" and what the fuck is that? Well I see it as pandering and nothing else.

But hey I've got nothing against Mike quite like him as he knows but I'm calling bullshit on some mask as if everything isn't in front of our faces.

But hey I'm also saying anything even loosely connected to the Democrats, big or little d, is not only futile but an exercise in support of the Empire no matter one's intent.

Look enough is enough. How in the hell can anyone with their eyes open have supported support Edwards. And let's face it this is alll part of the baloney of the "American narrative" as well.

As for it being "their playing field" that's fine but you can lob cocktails into their field or play by an entirely different set of rules but this shit of equivocating by saying "I support Obama but..." makes me a little ill.

The Democrats and the democrats suck. History corroborates that thesis.

I agree on the point that saying "I support Obama" with the stealth caveat that you support him being forced to be FDR redux (or whatever) fails at being clever and is more like..dunno the word..smarmy? (although Lenin did say something along the lines that he supported the Czar like a noose supports the hanged man)

Plus, if its being used as a tension reliever its pretty much just a way to be non-confrontational without getting anywhere in the process. I also don't like Mikes angle that leftists are actually the "true" Democrats..if we're being particularly generous we might call that a feint..but even then its a pretty sad and desperate one

Not sure the Edwards thing was so straightforward but (alleged) "sins of the past" are better left in the past probably

I take your point that to some extent we are "buying in" to the American narrative by taking some of this shit at face value but I still think you're being a tad too critical in this particular instance. Not that it matters what I think :D

They gotta cut down on the sanctimony there: they have the perfect fix for every issue but somehow things just keep getting more and more fucked. Luckily they have an answer (by way of explanation and bowing to practical "realities) for that too

Still, its gotta be hard to be that high and mighty when you're -- almost literally -- never right. This can't have escaped the DU "brain trust"..can it?

Yeah but Chlams, you make it sound like theres a moral high ground. DU is their playing field right? So by that logic posting there at all is kind of a concession.

I think what Mike is doing there is useful if not wildly productive (not looking to debate the point). Not every situation calls for or demands a homily, no matter how warranted.

I don't know if its an axiom but sometimes you give a little to get a little. Has Mike actually surrendered his principles or given ground? Not from where I'm standing.


Without reference to Chlamor and Mike's discussion, there IS a moral high ground, "of sorts". It is the duality of the "democratic" thing - a state of the entire people based on the absolute dominance of the booge. Liberty, Equality, Fraternity, Oligarchy... like that.

In many ways, the charge of hypocrisy and moral relativism is the ultimate criticism and the most eye-opening. It is back to elections again: thinking that the vote is bullshit is entirely consistent with stating that they also cheat every time.

In such discussion, our consistency and integrity does matter - you have to lead by example if nothin' else.

Besides, DU isn't "Them". It is a species of "Us" who identifies with "Them". As such, the most powerful epitaph is always:

scab...

a species of "Us" who identifies with "Them"



love it, thanks.

If I could see any practical value in saying "I am not a Democrat" or "Lincoln was a racist" or "FDR was a capitalist" I would do that. All three of them go without saying, don't they?

At the same time, I think chlams 10-9-8-7 thing is valuable. Sure it is all fucked up through and through. So long as chlams is saying that, I don't have to and I can hit them from a different direction.

In any case, the farmers, the farm workers, and the rural poor all know that it is all fucked up. It is a pretty small segment of the population for whom this is earth-shaking news.

Yeah but Chlams, you make it sound like theres a moral high ground. DU is their playing field right? So by that logic posting there at all is kind of a concession.

I think what Mike is doing there is useful if not wildly productive (not looking to debate the point). Not every situation calls for or demands a homily, no matter how warranted.

I don't know if its an axiom but sometimes you give a little to get a little. Has Mike actually surrendered his principles or given ground? Not from where I'm standing.


Without reference to Chlamor and Mike's discussion, there IS a moral high ground, "of sorts". It is the duality of the "democratic" thing - a state of the entire people based on the absolute dominance of the booge. Liberty, Equality, Fraternity, Oligarchy... like that.

In many ways, the charge of hypocrisy and moral relativism is the ultimate criticism and the most eye-opening. It is back to elections again: thinking that the vote is bullshit is entirely consistent with stating that they also cheat every time.

In such discussion, our consistency and integrity does matter - you have to lead by example if nothin' else.

Besides, DU isn't "Them". It is a species of "Us" who identifies with "Them". As such, the most powerful epitaph is always:

scab...




Point(s) taken

Does anybody else remember Starroute? Just saw a post of hers over at DU, didn't know she was still "active". She was always a repository of documented info on stuff