Someone who still has access to DU should invite these people over here. I am not certain about all of them, but we could tell them upfront that we are socialists or link to or include anax's recent what to write about. That will cause a self-selecting pre-qualification thing to happen.

leftofthedial
I guess I have to leave DU now because I'm sincerely beginning to wish that the Democrats will lose big in 2008 due to the complete loss of the "left-most" 70% of their base--the ones they've continually taken for granted and told to fuck off. I think it's already too late for our country and perhaps our planet, but the only hope for America (if there is any) is to force the "democrats" in DC out of the way and to move the Democratic Party W-A-Y to the left, where most Americans are. As long as progressives keep holding their noses and voting for phony "democrats" who vote like repukes, the party will continue to move inexorably into the corpo-fascist camp.

rucky
Maybe others haven't noticed how far we've swung to the right. in such a short time. Incremental change isn't going to fix it. It'll just fester.

NightWatcher
so if we dont drink the party kool aid, we're gone? let me know where you land and I'll join you there.

Hydra
The party already does that. They've been telling the "left"(not very left, IMO) to FOAD, The same with their supporters. I'd say it would get to be a small party without us, but apparently there are many people who have embraced "win at any cost"...but I have to ask: win what?

I guess I have to leave DU now (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1975657)

TahitiNut
The following article appeared in the July 9th iss of 'The Nation' magazine, yet received little or no notice on DU. Liberals and progressives, the heart of the America mainstream, have been marginalized and betrayed by their elected representatives for over 27 years. I've watched this myself, having no blindered loyalties to the corporations that present themselves as the national political parties.

So, as the partisans fling themselves into the habitual "you're either with us or you're with the ___" Mafia meme, let's try to remember: it's suicidal. When the "leadership" (under the cover of either one of the labels in the "two-party" system) finds itself so wholly and irrevocably unresponsive to the majority of the people - who they dismiss, demean, marginalize, and ignore - we can and will see catastrophic results. When the 'system' itself becomes immune to change, it will be destroyed. Sooner or later. (Hopefully sooner - rather than prolong the misery.)

nadinbrzezinski
But, but, but we are told to just fall in line

shut up and just wave party flags...

And never, EVER question the leadership

After all its a fucking game and our team is winning

Thanks...

At least I am not the only one saying that

NoGodsNoMasters
The way I see it this is just status quo. I mean, like Noam Chomsky says even the supposed liberal democrats are generally far to the right of the American people. Theres' some quote by john kerry, not a bad man, no serious disrespect, but anyhow, it was during his campaigning back in the election where he said he wouldn't support national healthcare because most americans don't support it, again, I'm paraphrasing, but this elucidates the point. Democrats are WAY WAY behind they're constituents on social issues. Americans want national healthcare, higher minimum wage, better environmental laws and eco friendly technologies, they want new orleans fixed, they want an end to this goddamn war, they want the government to stop giving they're tax dollars to billionaires and multinationals, and they want to do something about human rights, nuclear proliferation, etc. Honestly Dennis Kucinich is closer to the average American than the mainstream candidates, but frankly, I don't think he has a prayer. There needs to be a change and I think it's gonna have to come from the bottom up if it comes at all, these people are, supposedly, our representatives, it's time they acted like it.

Disturbed
The Dem Party veered to the right politically during Raygun's 1st term. Bush 1 was not in the Raygun mold & rejected Raygun's Voodoo Econ. Bill Clinton ushered in the "Neo-Liberal" concept, triangulated & brought in NAFTA, Work-Fare, & expanded the Fairness Doctrine. The Left Wing of the Dem Party was ignored. Now it is even more ignored. Corps. have a major influence on both dominant parties. Money is the driving force for politicians. The Multi-Corps were given huge tax breaks for relocating their mfg., & outsourcing & in-sourcing were rewarded. Free trade mostly meant favorable breaks for other countries. The Upper Class benefited while the Middle Class, Working Poor & the Poor were downgraded. Lou Dobbs may be wrong about a few things but he is correct about The Class War. The Upper Class is winning with the aide of the dominant parties.

It's not imaginary. The progressive majority of Americans HAVE been abandoned. (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1970057)

self-selecting pre-qualification

Hmm. I hadn't really thought about that before. Might oughtta run with that idea...

The "like minded" thing that operates in the various liberal and progressive organizations is based on the perceived need to get rid of or exlude the "bad guys" with ever more refined and sophisticated litmus tests for that. Smaller and smaller splinter groups are formed, that are supposed to be more pure and purity is supposed to be better somehow. But those making the purity tests are going the opposite direction from using a "potential socialist" test. "Potential socialist" is a giant and ever-expanding group, and the idea that this must mean big tent and therefore a dilution of purity is nonsense. Read through those threads and you can see the two groups diverge - those who think radical means a certain position on abortion, gays, "the war" and guns, and those who start with the haves versus the have nots. Most of those using the abortion, gays, "the war" and guns purity tests are doing so because those are the only things that differentiate them from Republicans, and they have nothing else.

I am not afraid of the bad guys. I say we need to water the seeds where they are, not rip up the plants that have the wrong color bloom on them. I say that the litmus testers as to who is and who isn't "progressive" should be approached with caution and that we shouldn't assume they are "like minded."

Keep in mind, Rusty, that we can create a forum for talking point people, Dem or Rep, and move threads there as needed. That avoids both disruption and banning and lets us keep building on the good things here without fear or compromise.

Keep in mind, Rusty, that we can create a forum for talking point people, Dem or Rep, and move threads there as needed. That avoids both disruption and banning and lets us keep building on the good things here without fear or compromise.

And that would engender respect from all but the most virulent ideological foes, I daresay.

And that would engender respect from all but the most virulent ideological foes, I daresay.

Yeah.

It isn't really ideologies that cause any problem, anyway. It is hidden agendas, disguised opinions - talking points and bully tactics. The duped and confused class traitors are the problem, and of those, the ones who are competely irredeemable are very few in number, though they do dominate the discussion everywhere. Our real foes, who are very, very few in number, will never show up.

feel free to ignore...

My immediate reaction is Proceed With Caution.

My second reaction is maybe it's a good idea to get hosting figured out and major principles in place before opening the floodgates because if any "hidden agendas, disguised opinions - talking points and bully tactics" appear during this process it will make things more difficult.

I am not suggesting that the doors shouldn't be wide open in general but I have to stress - from experience - that there can be a tidal wave and once it passes through it is really hard to change things. What I mean is, it is really easy for the (bad) patterns we see on other discussion boards to crop up and take root...

...maybe it's a good idea to get hosting figured out and major principles in place before opening the floodgates.

I think we're all on the same page about that.

...get hosting figured out and major principles in place before...

Good thinking.