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curt_b
08-23-2009, 08:10 AM
I don't know if people here are aware of or would care about the Reimagining Society Project at Znet: http://www.zcommunications.org/zparecon/rsessays.htm

It was stimulated by a Nation magazine's website forum:
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090323/ehrenreich_fletcher


Over the last few months, Z invited about 350 Leftists to "to submit one or two essays about vision and strategy regarding economy, polity, gender/kinship, culture/race, ecology, international relations, or any part of any of these areas of life or any more focused aspect of life such as education, health, science, art, etc. - singly or in any combination."

So far, about 150 have responded. You'll recognize many of the writers, and it's heavy with "participatory democracy" essays (Kid, check your blood pressure before reading some of these.) A couple of good things about it though are that many of the writers offer clear explanations of their outlook, and are leading representatives of various Left tendencies. Next, the comments to some of the essays are quite good, and reveal some intellectual honesty. Third, many of the authors are frequently published on Leftist and liberal websites, and their work here gives a great deal of background into their other writings.

Paul Street's piece is a good example. His analysis of current affairs and past work on racism are among the best, regularly available on the web. I'm going to excerpt a couple paragraphs from and a couple comments to his essay. If you look at a few of the articles, some of the themes we've discussed here about "democracy", "worker's control, "hierarchy", etc. are repeated in the context of broad political projects. It's an impressive effort, and the responses surpass most of the drivel that appears on blogs and forums. What does it mean? I don't know.

Re-Imagining and Recovering Revolutionary Socialism
July 13, 2009 By Paul Street
http://www.zcommunications.org/znet/viewArticle/21980

Why re-imagine socialism? I can think of five reasons.

"Socialism or Barbarism If We're Lucky"

First, because Karl Marx, Frederick Engels, and Rosa Luxembourg were right: humanity either transcends capitalist class rule by constructing a new genuinely social order based on democratic principles or it falls into permanent disaster, tyranny and decline. Failure to develop and implement a radical alternative to the profits system and its fake, corporate-managed "democracy" will bring us (in no short order) to what Arundhati Roy calls "the endgame of humanity."[1] The technical, organizational, and cultural forces of production, distribution, pollution destruction, and social/thought/ population- control that have emerged under the direction and command of capital and the capitalist state have turned that command into an ever-more imminent existential threat not just to meaningful democracy and (intimately related) to the very survival of the species. [2] The Hungarian Marxist Ivan Meszaros was right to update Luxembourg for an age of incipient ecological catastrophe: its "socialism or barbarism if we're lucky." Of course, the barbarism is well underway and has been for some time.

Midwife of Socialism or Undertaker of Humanity?

Second, because Marx and Engels were wrong: there are no fixed teleological laws of historical development determining the dialectical emergence of a revolutionary proletariat that - with proper guidance and assistance from a heroic, clear-eyed, and iron-willed revolutionary "vanguard" - will sweep the masters of capital into the dustbin of history. A "fully developed" capitalism is by no means the inherent progenitor of its own radical working class grave-diggers. It is by no historical law the "midwife of socialism." Possessed with means of destruction and hegemony that the historical Left's leading 19th century thinkers could hardly imagine, the "late capitalism" of the long multinational-corporate era seems more properly understood as the potential undertaker of humanity - as a plague or cancer threatening the continued viability of the human experiment (not to mention the lives of numerous other species). It is hardly a "utopian" flight of elite intellectual fancy for people from any and all classes to work to rigorously conceptualize and advance alternative democratic models of political and economic and development beyond the parasitic death-grip imposed by the business class and its many captive and indoctrinated servants. It is, rather, one's duty to humanity to undertake such intellectual and activist work.

"So, Goodbye to the Soul of Eugene Debts"

Fourth, because the historical models of really and recently existing "socialism" and in-power "Marxism [-Lennisim]" have not proved attractive or persuasive to most of the world's citizen-workers. Those models sadly identified the word "socialism" with the dungeon and with stultifying state bureaucracy. One can argue about the extent to which this unattractiveness and tragic misidentification is the result of (a) capitalist-imperialist power, propaganda, blockade, and intervention; (b) harsh historical circumstances (the legacy of feudalism and Tsarism/absolutism) and the related isolation of the Russian Revolution after 1919; and/or (c) inherent moral and ideological flaws within "socialist" movements and states since the mid-late 19th century. However one jumbles these and (perhaps) other factors, however, it is an uncontestable fact that the state policies and institutions that elites on both sides of the Cold War came (for their own different reasons) to identify as "socialism" had little to do with the liberating spirit of popular working class rebellion and popular revolution that the original socialist and left anarchist movements embodied. Coldly and quite immediately betraying Marx's egalitarian and anti-authoritarian leanings - reflected in his brilliant denunciation of the capitalist division of labor [6] and his embrace of the short-lived radical-democratic Paris Commune [7] and in his reference to the desirable future as among other things the reign of the self-determining "associated producers"[8] - the Soviet experiment (lacking the oxygenating effect of the European revolution Trotsky knew it required) "moved quickly to dismantle the incipient socialist institutions that had grown up during the popular revolution - the factory councils, the Soviets, in fact any organ of popular control - and to convert the workforce into what they called a ‘labor army' under the command of the leader"(Chomsky).

Comments:

Your account of why 'Marx and Engels were wrong'
By D'Arcy, Steve

First, let me say that I really, really like the article.

But I do have a couple of constructively critical points to make.

One very minor point is that I find it hard to accept the description of Rosa Luxemburg as a "libertarian socialist," for two reasons: she was a Marxist and it is conventional to use 'libertarian socialist' as a label for anarchism, or at least one strand of anarchism (which she was explicit in rejecting, for principled reasons); and, moreover, she was a collectivist, and if the word "libertarian" is to have any meaning, it ought to imply at least rejecting collectivism.

My more substantial concern relates to the claim that "Marx and Engels were wrong" because they (supposedly) believed that "a revolutionary proletariat...with guidance and assistance from a heroic, clear-eyed, and iron-willed revolutionary 'vanguard'...will sweep the masters of capital into the dustbin of history." This is just a baseless caricature.

Here's a an actual quotation from Marx and Engels: "we cannot ally ourselves with people who openly declare that the workers are too uneducated to free themselves and must first be liberated from above by philanthropic capitalists or middle class reformers." Instead, they insist, "the emancipation of the working classes must be the act of workers themselves." This is at the very centre of their thought. (I defy you to find a quotation in which they say anything about workers needing "guidance from a heroic, clear-eyed and iron-willed" group of any kind.)

Finally, Marx and Engels don't use the word, "vanguard," and if they did they would be among those (like Lenin by the way, not to mention Luxemburg or Pannekoek, who you cite) who use it interchangably with the term "advanced workers," i.e., militant workers influenced by radical politics, not a group of "iron-willed" professional revolutionaries, which is a doctrine promoted by people like Bakunin, and in one of Lenin's early works (1902), influenced as he was at that time by some of the elitist strands in 19th century Russian radicalism, but certainly not by Marx or Engels.

A serious engagement with the work of Marx and Engels, above all their idea of the "self-emancipation of the working class," is crucial for the project that you describe in this article. Deterring people from reading Marx and Engels by spreading myths and mischaracterizations of their writings or their politics can only get in the way. (This, of course, is an idea that Luxemburg and Pannekoek, not to mention Meszaros and Debs, would be only too quick to insist upon.)

Re: Your account of why 'Marx and Engels were wrong'
By Street, Paul

I accept the correction on Marx-Engels (though retain critique of notion of historical teleology/laws and revolutionary class) but don't actually quite call Rosa a libertarian socialist (don't have her confused with Rocker) in the essay....Elsewhere in the essay you can see me quoting Marx on liberation in connection with the self-determining rule of the "associated producers" ( this phrase is used quite well by Meszaros). See note 8, with the use of that key quote from Vol III of Capital. There is much that a libertarian socialist can find in Marx indeed in my opinion.

Re: Your account of why 'Marx and Engels were wrong'
By Davidson, Carl

Marx and Engels were far more right than wrong about most things. They were first of all, historical materialists, not historical teleologists. Apart from general trends, they tended to shy away from making predictions or proclaiming future certainites. But it's true that their 19th Century notions of science had some 'progress-ism' built in. Luckily, we have historical materialists like Stephen Jay Gould, in his book 'Full House,' to enlighten us on the matter.

But why do you want to discard the notion of revolutionary class? By this Marx wasn't talking about what a majority of workers might think about themselves at any given time--although many might be suprised at how progressive a cross-section of workers are on a variety of topics than a cross-section of any other class. No, Marx argued they were revolutionary because of what they were, a class 'bound by radical chains,' meaning that as they freed themselves, they freed all humankind. The converse is true as well--labor in the white skin can never be free as long as in the Black it's branded (Marx) and no nation can be free that oppresses another (Engels).

We need to get a better understanding of 'the Old Mole,' and read him more directly, rather than setting him aside in favor of POMO commentators who never quite got a handle on him in the first place. These days even more so.

Finally, we do well to take practical note of of differences among the population between advanced or progressive, middle and backward, and to encourage organization among the more advanced and militant fighters. That is sorely needed, even if our current supply of self-proclaimed 'vanguard parties' is mostly useless.

Kid of the Black Hole
08-23-2009, 09:51 AM
Partly because he is being stupid and partly because I am being intentionally obtuse.

Lets look at some numbers


First a quote from a summary report by MGI (McKinsey Global Institute)

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/McKindsey%20On%20Consumer%20Debt.pdf

Between 2000 and 2007, US households led a national borrowing binge, nearly doubling their outstanding debt to $13.8 trillion. The pace was faster than the growth of their incomes, their spending, or the nation's GDP. The amount of US household debt amassed by 2007 was unprecedented whether measured in nominal terms, as a share of GDP (98 percent), or as a ratio of liabilities to disposable income (138 percent). But as the global financial and economic crisis worsened at the end of last year, a shift occurred: US households for the first time since World War II reduced their debt outstanding.

Over the past decade, rising US household spending has served as the main engine of US economic growth. From 2000 to 2007, US annual personal consumption grew by 44 percent, from $6.9 trillion to $9.9 trillion - faster than either GDP or household income. Consumption accounted for 77 percent of real US GDP growth during this period - high by comparison with both US and international experience.

In chart form
http://static.seekingalpha.com/uploads/2009/8/16/saupload_mck_201.jpg

But here is what a statistical release from the Federal Reserve says on the matter for First Quarter 2009

http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/z1/Current/z1.pdf

(check page 2 in the PDF since it does not copy/paste correctly -- there is a chart there that spells it out clearly)

http://static.seekingalpha.com/uploads/2009/8/16/saupload_household_20debt_207.31.09.jpg


Next up, Revolving Credit: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aQMezopEEsH8


U.S. Consumer Credit Fell 5th Straight Month in June (Update1)
Share | Email | Print | A A A


By Vincent Del Giudice

Aug. 7 (Bloomberg) -- Consumer credit in the U.S. declined in June for a fifth straight month as banks maintained more restrictive lending terms and households remained reluctant to borrow money for major purchases.

Consumer credit fell $10.3 billion, or 4.92 percent at an annual rate, to $2.5 trillion, according to a Federal Reserve report released today in Washington. Credit dropped by $5.38 billion in May, more than previously estimated. The series of declines is the longest since 1991.

Stagnant wages and falling home values mean consumer spending, about 70 percent of the economy, will take time to recover even as the recession eases. Incomes fell the most in four years in June as one-time transfer payments from the Obama administration’s stimulus plan dried up, and Americans saved almost $125 billion more of their incomes in June than a year earlier.

“This string of declining credit should continue as long as the economy eliminates workers at an elevated pace,” said Richard Yamarone, director of economic research at Argus Research Corp. in New York. “We’re 20 months into the recession and the economy is still losing a quarter-of-a-million jobs per month.”

Economists had forecast consumer credit would drop $5 billion in June, according to the median of 33 estimates in a Bloomberg News survey. Projections ranged from declines of $11.9 billion to $1 billion. The Fed initially reported that consumer credit decreased by $3.2 billion in May.

Credit Cards

Revolving debt, such as credit cards, fell by $5.25 billion in June, a record 10th straight drop, according to the Fed’s statistics. Non-revolving debt, including auto loans and mobile- home loans, declined by $5.04 billion. The Fed’s report doesn’t cover borrowing secured by real estate.

While the downturn abated in the second quarter as government stimulus programs started to kick in, the three-month period capped the worst retrenchment by consumers since 1980. Gross domestic product shrank at a better-than-forecast 1 percent annual pace after a 6.4 percent drop the prior three months, the Commerce Department figures showed last week.

The economy was forecast to shrink at a 1.5 percent pace, according to the median estimate of 78 economists surveyed by Bloomberg.

Government spending rose at a 5.6 percent pace last quarter, the most since 2003, as President Barack Obama’s $787 billion stimulus program began to take effect. The funds are aimed at helping states retain workers, financing infrastructure projects and reducing tax payments.

Consumer Spending

Consumer spending, meanwhile, fell at a 1.2 percent pace following a 0.6 percent increase in the prior quarter. Purchases slid 2 percent since the peak at the end of 2007 --the most since a 2.4 percent decline in the 1980 recession.

U.S. personal incomes, which include interest income, dividends, rents and other payments as well as wages, tumbled 1.3 percent in June, more than forecast and erasing the previous month’s gain, figures from the Commerce Department showed Aug. 4 in Washington. Spending rose 0.4 percent in June as prices climbed. Adjusted for inflation, purchases fell 0.1 percent, the report showed.

Wages and salaries, which drive recoveries in spending, fell 4.7 percent in the 12 months through June, the biggest drop since records began in 1960, the Commerce figures showed.

Decreasing pay is not the only hurdle for consumers. Plunging home prices and stocks reduced household net worth by a record $13.9 trillion from the third quarter of 2007 through this year’s first quarter, according to figures from the Fed.

Job Losses

The pace of U.S. job losses slowed more than forecast last month and the unemployment rate dropped for the first time in more than a year, the Labor Department said today in Washington. Payrolls fell by 247,000, after a 443,000 loss in June, and the jobless rate unexpectedly dropped to 9.4 percent from 9.5 percent, which was the highest in 26 years.

The White House warned the jobless rate is still likely to reach 10 percent, and with companies from Boeing Co. to Verizon Communications Inc. continuing to cut costs, any rebound in hiring may not come until 2010.

“Consumers were still battening down the hatches in June trying to get out from under the mountain of debt that they had accumulated in the good times,” said Chris Rupkey, chief financial economist at Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi UFJ Ltd. in New York.

Default Rates

Credit-card defaults climbed to a record in June as more consumers fell behind on payments because of rising unemployment and bankruptcies, according to Fitch Ratings statistics released on July 31. Charge-offs, the cost of loans that card issuers have given up on collecting, rose to 10.79 percent last month, 64 percent higher than the same period last year, the Fitch Prime Credit Card Index showed.

Fitch said the rate of increase “slowed significantly” from earlier this year, providing “a glimmer of hope that charge-offs may soon plateau” in coming months. Loans delinquent at least 60 days declined to 4.31 percent in June from 4.45 percent in the previous month, Fitch said.

MasterCard Inc., Visa Inc., Capital One Financial Corp., Discover Financial Services and American Express Co. cut marketing by $636.8 million in the latest quarter as rising U.S. unemployment contributed to record defaults and depressed consumer spending.

Sales of cars and light trucks fell to a 9.7 million annual rate in June from a 9.9 million annual rate the month before, according to Woodcliff Lake, New Jersey-based industry research firm Autodata Corp.

In July, sales rose to an 11.3 million pace, the highest since September, Autodata reported this week. That compares with February’s 9.1 million rate, which was the lowest since 1981. Auto sales will likely rebound further as a federal “cash-for- clunkers” program boosts demand for cars.

To contact the reporter on this story: Vincent Del Giudice in Washington vdelgiudice@bloomberg.net


http://static.seekingalpha.com/uploads/2009/8/16/saupload_consumer_20credit_20__20june.jpg

http://static.seekingalpha.com/uploads/2009/8/16/saupload_mck_202.jpg

http://static.seekingalpha.com/uploads/2009/8/16/saupload_mck_203.jpg

http://static.seekingalpha.com/uploads/2009/8/16/saupload_mck_204.jpg

http://static.seekingalpha.com/uploads/2009/8/16/saupload_income_20classes.jpg

http://static.seekingalpha.com/uploads/2009/8/16/saupload_consumption_20bar_201.jpg

http://static.seekingalpha.com/uploads/2009/8/16/saupload_income_20strata.jpg

http://static.seekingalpha.com/uploads/2009/8/16/saupload_leverage_20strata.jpg

http://static.seekingalpha.com/uploads/2009/8/16/saupload_net_20worth_20strata.jpg

http://www.federalreserve.gov/pubs/feds/2001/200121/200121pap.pdf

A COHORT ANALYSIS OF HOUSEHOLD SAVING IN THE 1990S
Dean M. Maki and Michael G. Palumbo*
ABSTRACT
In the U.S., household net worth rose substantially in the latter half of the 1990s and the personal saving rate
decreased rapidly. Researchers have not reached a consensus about just how these two events are linked, or
how to interpret the negative correlation between wealth and the saving rate over a longer time span. The
movements in net worth and the saving rate are consistent with a direct view of the wealth effect, in which an
increase in wealth directly causes households to increase their consumption and decrease their saving.
However, the aggregate data do not rule out alternative explanations for the time series correlation: either
indirect wealth effects or reverse causation running from changes in household saving to changes in wealth.
In this paper, we analyze a unique database constructed using household-level data from the Survey of
Consumer Finances and aggregate data from the Flow of Funds Accounts. These data allow us to estimate
net worth and saving for different demographic groups over the period surrounding the stock market boom in
the 1990s. We find that the groups of households that benefited the most from the recent runup in equity
wealth--those with high incomes or who have attained some college education--were also the groups that
substantially decreased their rates of saving. Further, econometric analysis of these data produces coefficient
estimates for the propensity to consume out of wealth that are closely aligned with typical estimates obtained
from aggregate data. Taken together, our results corroborate a direct view of the wealth effect on
consumption.

http://static.seekingalpha.com/uploads/2009/8/16/saupload_maki_20pulmbo.jpg

http://static.seekingalpha.com/uploads/2009/8/16/saupload_historical_20income_20and_20nw.jpg

http://static.seekingalpha.com/uploads/2009/8/16/saupload_historical_20relative_20wealth_20loss.jpg

http://static.seekingalpha.com/uploads/2009/8/16/saupload_housing_20decline.jpg

runs with scissors
08-23-2009, 10:45 AM
I followed the forum from a Nation email alert, but the webLeft seemed to sigh a big yawn over the whole thing.

The essays are interesting, and the comments are fascinating.

One of my favorites was Why the US Left is Weak - and What to Do About It by Barbara Epstein

http://www.zcommunications.org/znet/viewArticle/21992

a taste of the comments:
[div class="excerpt"]The notion of "building" a left gives far too little weight to the particularities of commonality and spontaneity of the so-called leftist movements that have appeared through the years. The sit-down strikes in Detroit in the mid-30s were not "built." Those people lived in large communities with common experiences: common employers, face-to-face contact every day, and family and neighbor support networks. One cannot simply manufacture such commonality. The same could be said for the civil rights movement. Their shared experiences were reinforced in their churches. I seriously doubt if people in these movements were aware that they would now be labeled leftist. In these cases, there was no desire to transform the "system." In fact, they wanted in the system.
*
It is incumbent on those who see a left arising to put that in the context of current day demographics. We are not co-located within workplaces. Very few communities have inherent economic power any more. What is the basis of a new left?[/quote]

And LOL at the comments on Street's essay.
You gotta love anyone who refers to the Libertarian frontrunner as Ron Paul Bunyon

:lmfao:

Kid of the Black Hole
08-23-2009, 01:32 PM
This one surprised me. Its a little mooshy sure, but I suppose it'd be hard to write an essay like that that isn't.

http://www.zcommunications.org/znet/viewArticle/21749

Hey, Curt, about the majority of these essays. Filter them (and their authors) through No War But Class War and Reed's "There are only two classes..".

Its kind of a ready made compass (and I am not telling you what to conclude in advance, just suggesting it as a strategy)

Kid of the Black Hole
08-23-2009, 01:37 PM
You have a penchant for finding critiques against the "Left" which is a confused topic because sometimes its means a rant against Democrats and sometimes it means a rant against union bureaucrats and sometimes its an insane Trotsky-ite rant (but it always signals a rant, ha!)

Anyway, one thing to keep in mind that when someone writes "I have a beef with the Left" sometimes what they're tellling you is.."I have a beef with the Left"

Two Americas
08-23-2009, 02:14 PM
This is going to be a lot of work.

Without having spent much time on it yet, two observations:

- I think the premise that the challenge is to visualize some utopian future - if that is in fact the premise here - is itself reactionary.

- I am highly suspicious of "socialism is obsolete" or "socialism needs re-branding and re-packaging" rants.

The first makes us mere passive observers of the struggle - and that is the palace guard mentality that everyone has been persuaded to take - "if I were King for a day" chatter as though the speakers were in fact perfumed princes of the aristocracy, debating about just what the princes should do for (or with) the peons.

The second is often a stalking horse for anti-socialist agendas.

Kid of the Black Hole
08-23-2009, 02:32 PM
But also, here is something they all are ostensibly missing. They all think -- whether it is openly stated or only strongly implicit -- that under socialism people are called to sublimate their own self-interests for the interest of some perceived public/common/societal good.

To me, this is not only Utopianism in the extreme, it is also basically a defense of capitalism. People's self-interest lies precisely in securing their own existence -- which is achieved ONLY be abolishing capital relations.

But these writers think its about altrusim vs self-interest but in the process back themselves into the de facto contention that the capitalst ladder match is somehow in ANYONE's best interest (who is not an Owner)

Look at the charts in my post 2: the Upper Class/Owners is really 10% of the population and the top half of that is really a segement unto itself since its composed of so many insanely high "earning" outliers.

Their brand of "altruism" is openly reactionary IMO -- one step away from "charity" and "philanthropy"

Two Americas
08-23-2009, 02:34 PM
Did you notice that quote from Coleman Young about do-gooders?

Also, the "imagine the perfect system" nonsense turns the political struggle into a product, to then be sold and marketed - or, more importantly, to be compromised to make it more marketable.

curt_b
08-23-2009, 08:47 PM
I posted this, because I find arguments between self described Marxists and Anarchists, Libertarian Socialists and Anarcho-Syndicalists much more interesting than those which address liberal supporters (even if they think Democrats are spineless) of the Democratic Party.

These discussions are based in a one size fits all consideration of organizational models.

Most of the people involved in this project are obsessed with pre-formative organizational models that assume classlessness starts with horizontal organizational forms. This is only the case in early radical, but pre-revolutionary times. Currently, horizontal forms of organization are necessary to bring people into the mass movements, promote leadership development and emphasize the personal stories of oppressed people.

Similarly, some Marxists reject horizontal organizational forms as pandering to a romantic, utopian vision of society. From years ago, I remember the argument that party discipline expands and contracts in relation to opposition forces.

My only concern is how we build mass movements. It's not an "either/or". I believe that there is/will be a mass of class conscious workers who are motivated by solidarity. How they decide to organize is uncertain. If they are on the verge of taking state power, it is very different than when they are trying to promote class solidarity.

runs with scissors
08-23-2009, 10:37 PM
That muddying of the waters. A large group of people (including yours truly) angry at the left angry at the Democrats, seeking information and expression and viola! here comes the blurring and redirecting and misinformation.

Why is there so much ready response to anger at the "Left?"

You don't really see that happening on the right.

Kid of the Black Hole
08-24-2009, 01:39 AM
is sorta Thinking About Thinking even if its author may not fully have a handle on what she is trying to say. Thinking About Thinking is a phrase from Fichte, one of Hegel's direct predecessor's/contemporaries and influences (German Idealist).

If you think about it, this is exactly the reason why both Mike/TA and Chlamor here are crazy (and I say this with the utmost affection and regard, it is one of the highest compliments I can think of). Almost everyone bristles and struggles with what they write and the storm and stress is inevitably over the question of practicality, which eventually -- however belatedly -- comes down to the question of how to organize as this is the only practical way to accomplish anything.

Chlamor not only goes after sacred cows but also all things that we "know" to be true. His organizational plan amounts to a monotone call of "everyone hit the streets". It is Ruthless Critcism of Everything That Exists (Marx) and if it is more Nihilist than Bolshevik that is still all good.

Two Americas, on the surface, advances an even zanier line that if liberalism were swept away we would have a clear path toward class struggle. Almost no one gets this -- and understandably so -- because it is very difficult to piece together what is really being said. In my opinion, it is not because TA intentionally obfuscates but that he is generally confused himself in a few key areas. But that is OK, we're ALL confused to some degree.

I was re-reading through some of Them And Us tonight. After Eastland picked up where McCarthy had left off, the UE was reduced to roughly 90k members and the book is VERY explicit about what bound them together -- they had all been tempered by hellfire and they were all ready to FIGHT, eyes forward fists in the air (at a time when, as the book puts it, they were subject to every form of intimidation up to and including Star Chamber Sessions). 50,000 members had just been lost to intimidation tactics instigated by the collusion between management/GE and the government. The memebers who stayed ran the gamut politically (although I think the conservative workers were in the minority lol) but that was irrelevany because it is a very different kind of politics that we are talking about (and now we start to see TAs true point)

The question is -- on what BASIS do we organize? Its not going to be around environemntalism, or starry-eyeed idealism (lay meaning) of Freedom/Peace/Democracy/Justice, or conscience/"feeling bad" (from Anaxarchos) or technocratic prescriptions for a better world or overthrowing hierarchy/bureaucracy/patriarchy or advancing any sectarian political line or securing legal "rights" under bourgeois democracy. Its not even going to be based around clothing the naked and feeding the hungry although that is a large part of our mission. In short, its not going to be about moral sentiment in any of the above listed manifestations. You can cite umpteen examples in each case that prove this point.

All of those splinters listed are feeder streams and people with backgrounds in all of those traditions are going to come to the same meeting hall. Because it all gets subsumed by CLASS analysis (which I know you know, not being didactic) which starts with a wholesale REJECTION of not only things as they are but things as they are presented and present themselves to us.

None of this is to say that I don't take or reject your point about talking about organization. But I think that begs the big questions rather than addressing them.

To relate this back to the article I cited..how ya gonna reject everything as it is without..rejecting everything as it is? How ya gonna overturn all of it, without such rejection?

blindpig
08-24-2009, 06:09 AM
It's fun to play pretend but there is no point in it. Marx refused to engage in such, there's too much else on the plate.

I think I understand some of the motivation, particularly Americans, so saturated in cold war red baiting and facing more of the same from liberals at the drop of a hat. People feel the need to disassociate themselves from Stalin, gulags, 'a failed system'. It requires a relearning of history, something for which I am in debt to members of this site. Without historical context the capitalists version of history has it's self contained logic reaching it's pre-determined conclusion. So as to not be dismissed as a 'Stalinist' or Utopian they engage in Utopian fantasy.

I'm sure we all have ideas of what it might look like but all of that is irrelevant until we get there, job enough. Hell, it might look like 'In Watermelon Sugar'.