Damned liberal weasels, about ten of them, have their fangs embedded in my ass at this point. Can't fend them all off.

WOW! Google gives all SF homeless voicemail!! (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2933772)

All hail the mighty and beneficent Google, and may heaven help any naysayer.

Damned liberal weasels, about ten of them, have their fangs embedded in my ass at this point. Can't fend them all off.

WOW! Google gives all SF homeless voicemail!! (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2933772)

All hail the mighty and beneficent Google, and may heaven help any naysayer.

Wow, Mike, how the hell can you navigate that place?? I can't figure out where things start and end; now I know another reason why I never go there!! You got some tough nuts to crack there! but I'm totally discombobbled figuring out how and where to cut in! Pretty easy picking you out though, I kept looking for a Mike to start, lol! I may go back and give it a shot when my eyes uncross, and my brain stops hurting...(besides I forget my user name and password, as I've only used it once! I think it has Mary in it!)

Wow, Mike, how the hell can you navigate that place?? I can't figure out where things start and end; now I know another reason why I never go there!! You got some tough nuts to crack there! but I'm totally discombobbled figuring out how and where to cut in! Pretty easy picking you out though, I kept looking for a Mike to start, lol! I may go back and give it a shot when my eyes uncross, and my brain stops hurting...(besides I forget my user name and password, as I've only used it once! I think it has Mary in it!)

LOL. Don't feel obligated to jump into that cesspool, but your feedback here would, as always, be appreciated.

Wowsa, multiple variations of the wilfully obtuse. Afraid I can't get on DU tonite but I'll check in the a.m. to see if I might be useful or vindictive.

I am willing to entertain a "vindictive" approach at this point.

Am unwilling to engage in that rat's nest of a thread. To get embroiled in such a tangle with such vile critters would require the satisfaction of physical proximity so as to at least have the pleasure of throwing things at their skulls.

But I will add this thought.

I think the stronger argument against the liberal palliative madness that you are bangin' your head against is how it serves not just as a band-aid, that is obvious to many of the "do-gooders", but is in fact sinister because it serves to say, "Look we are society, we care about the homeless and here we are doing something about it", which serves to cloak the root causes of homelessness.

I'm not expressing this idea very well at the moment hope you get the drift.

Why do I wince every time I hear "hope" come into my brain?

Am unwilling to engage in that rat's nest of a thread. To get embroiled in such a tangle with such vile critters would require the satisfaction of physical proximity so as to at least have the pleasure of throwing things at their skulls.

But I will add this thought.

I think the stronger argument against the liberal palliative madness that you are bangin' your head against is how it serves not just as a band-aid, that is obvious to many of the "do-gooders", but is in fact sinister because it serves to say, "Look we are society, we care about the homeless and here we are doing something about it", which serves to cloak the root causes of homelessness.

I'm not expressing this idea very well at the moment hope you get the drift.

Why do I wince every time I hear "hope" come into my brain?

Thanks. Good point.

I am willing to entertain a "vindictive" approach at this point.

Ya gotta wonder what they get out of it. There's hardly an agenda here other than people who suspect they might be guilty deploying schoolyard legalism to ward off bad feelings. Ya might get more honesty at FR.

altruistic google inc. gave Obama $192,000.

The people's pay phone?

Am unwilling to engage in that rat's nest of a thread. To get embroiled in such a tangle with such vile critters would require the satisfaction of physical proximity so as to at least have the pleasure of throwing things at their skulls.

But I will add this thought.

I think the stronger argument against the liberal palliative madness that you are bangin' your head against is how it serves not just as a band-aid, that is obvious to many of the "do-gooders", but is in fact sinister because it serves to say, "Look we are society, we care about the homeless and here we are doing something about it", which serves to cloak the root causes of homelessness.

I'm not expressing this idea very well at the moment hope you get the drift.

Why do I wince every time I hear "hope" come into my brain?

"Charity" of every kind is a sham and a fraud. It unhooks the government from a direct responsibility for its "citizens" and turns it into a private affair based on altruistic motives. No responsibility for the state of the dispossed is attached. There is no responsibility at either end - not for the conditions of people nor for how they got there. The "private charities" of today, the NGOs and so on are particularly insidious. At least the "philanthropy" of John D. or J.P. Morgan or Carnegie was obvious blood money - a few cents returned for the millions expropriated and stolen through the blood, sweat, and tears of others. Today, the gulf of abstraction is so broad that the connection isn't even clear. Where does Google's money come from? Why, it falls from the sky. A simple innovation or speculation and the cash monsoons arrive like the rains in Bangladesh. Google is rich, not because others are poor but despite that unfortunate fact. The worst felony they can be charged with is a callous disregard for the "plight" of those less fortunate. How insensitive!

Meanwhile, the government is out of the business of "helping" people. That would be a big-government-infringement-on-freedom and besides, it's expensive.

This is some serious "fetishism"...

"The people have no houses, Marie"
"Well then, let them have e-mail."

.

Damned liberal weasels, about ten of them, have their fangs embedded in my ass at this point. Can't fend them all off.

WOW! Google gives all SF homeless voicemail!! (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2933772)

All hail the mighty and beneficent Google, and may heaven help any naysayer.

Where did you go? The worm is turning ever so slowly...

.

Motherfuck, I've hardly been at it and I'm about sick of dancing around with these assholes.

Shouldn't we just raise the red flag and break out the knuckle dusters?

Motherfuck, I've hardly been at it and I'm about sick of dancing around with these assholes.

Shouldn't we just raise the red flag and break out the knuckle dusters?

You're doin' great, BP... Besides, the flag thing has been done before.

http://chaplin.bfi.org.uk/images/720/bfi-00m-lth.jpg

Damned liberal weasels, about ten of them, have their fangs embedded in my ass at this point. Can't fend them all off.

WOW! Google gives all SF homeless voicemail!! (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2933772)

All hail the mighty and beneficent Google, and may heaven help any naysayer.

Where did you go? The worm is turning ever so slowly...

.

On a very slow dial up here, and the thread takes forever to load.

shows the depths of Moron Nation.

Does anybody really believe moral imbeciles like Mondo Joe and BigDaddy44 could ever embrace socialism?

This -- the sneering self-satisfied pseudo-superiority typified by MJ and BD44 (their minds closed forever by bumper-sticker platitudes) -- is precisely the characteristic ethos of the vast United States majority: probably something like 75 percent of the population at any given moment. Its empowerment via socialism would merely replace one ruling class with another, as in the 5,390-percent administrative cost increase inflicted on the public by the nest-feathering welfare bureaucracy. This in turn would lead directly to a wave of bureaucratic atrocities even worse than the ones I described on the Obama thread.

Moreover, in what is perhaps this nation's last last remaining expression of self-honesty, the people themselves acknowledge their innate viciousness: note how government -- which in the U.S. is theoretically defined as "by/for/of the people" but is effectively defined as unlimited bureaucratic tyranny -- is already distrusted even more than Big Business, which -- again effectively -- is also defined as tyranny, albeit tyranny (theoretically) limited by the constraints of profit and loss.

Which is why I have long believed socialism in the U.S. will remain impossible until its people are taught humility -- and the impulse toward cooperation humility breeds -- by terminal climate change, petroleum exhaustion and economic collapse.

(Anyone here who dares post this on DU or PI may do so at any time.)

Yes, very revealing indeed. A number of people were driven out of the woodwork there and showed their true colors.

Interesting what you say here - "socialism in the U.S. will remain impossible until its people are taught humility."

That thread does not particularly encourage me, to say the least, but I do find it valuable to get a clearer picture of just what we are up against and what the task ahead is.

Wow, Mike, how the hell can you navigate that place?? I can't figure out where things start and end; now I know another reason why I never go there!! You got some tough nuts to crack there! but I'm totally discombobbled figuring out how and where to cut in! Pretty easy picking you out though, I kept looking for a Mike to start, lol! I may go back and give it a shot when my eyes uncross, and my brain stops hurting...(besides I forget my user name and password, as I've only used it once! I think it has Mary in it!)

LOL. Don't feel obligated to jump into that cesspool, but your feedback here would, as always, be appreciated.

Hi Mike, I seemed to be curse in regards to giving feedback here! This will be my third attempt in as many days! but maybe I'll get my thoughts down before the phone rings (despite the fact that the two are supposed to be separate, the phone disconnects my service, I always say it the tap! lol!) or my one jealous female cat tries to kill my kitten who's in heat (fixed next week!), anyway the interruptions seem to be mainly here, hmmm, my conspiratorial tendencies, :wink:

some thoughts quickly I'd like to post there!

1. let them eat cake...
2. step on a nail, put on a bandaid, you'll be just fine...
3. I remember when Bill Gates was going to give computers to third world countries, years ago, I think after the pie incident, and he discovered that they not only didn't have electricity, but no inside plumbing, minor wake up call, heh?
4. A parallel thought regarding charities and the base cause would be the energy problems and the solutions: remember how Nicola Tessla had Colorado under total electricity for free??? I know "they" say we don't know how he did it, etc., etc, but "we" know that the solution to all our energy problems is being buried by greed and the corporations (not just Tessla either) and that "they" give "us" these ways to feel we are acting on it, happy guilt alleviating actions. Anyway, all the people could have free power and heat (and no fear of expensive electric heat). In parallel fashion, all people could have their rights for food, shelter, health care, and freedom to live were we to get to the root cause...

Wow the phone hasn't rung, the door knocked! or a cat squealed! I'm off to du to put in some thoughts,...

Motherfuck, I've hardly been at it and I'm about sick of dancing around with these assholes.

Shouldn't we just raise the red flag and break out the knuckle dusters?

Your dance has been quite wonderful bp, I missed your own marie post until after I read it, thank you for putting it in a much clearer manner. Its all so obvious, but they can't see with their head in the sand!

I do think what you, Mike, and others? (pseudonyms not disciphered yet) are saying to these folks is going to get through to some, and the idiots are actually helping you to get out some vital points. I was of their numbers not so long ago, and am still learning, believe me many reading are thinking deeply and not posting; again I have not posted as I am really confused which way to go there (I think I'm dyslexic), and don't want to be redundant, you folks have done such a good job and your energy will gain converts.

I do think what you, Mike, and others? (pseudonyms not disciphered yet) are saying to these folks is going to get through to some, and the idiots are actually helping you to get out some vital points. I was of their numbers not so long ago, and am still learning, believe me many reading are thinking deeply and not posting; again I have not posted as I am really confused which way to go there (I think I'm dyslexic), and don't want to be redundant, you folks have done such a good job and your energy will gain converts.

As always in politics, small factions are competing for the ears and minds of the public. Drawing the closet right wingers out and getting them to make outrageous statements helps swing public opinion - provoking the defenders of power into over reaching and revealing their agenda. They are also trying to provoke us into making statements that can then be characterized as "crazy" or "hateful" or "offensive" or "violent" or if all goes well for them - as "communist" AND "crazy."

There is also an intimidation factor that we are supposed to pretend is not there. Many are afraid to post, but are watching and paying attention. Liberalism is run by bullies. They seek to intimidate people and restrict participation. If they can make a discussion ugly and threatening, or just chaotic and confusing, they win. On that thread there are a few "shots across the bow" - a couple of posters have been threatened. We are supposed to pretend we don't see that, of course - we are thoroughly trained to give the bullies and stalkers the benefit of the doubt - but the message is sent to the more timid that they could be fucked with in real life if they are not careful.

I do think what you, Mike, and others? (pseudonyms not disciphered yet) are saying to these folks is going to get through to some, and the idiots are actually helping you to get out some vital points. I was of their numbers not so long ago, and am still learning, believe me many reading are thinking deeply and not posting; again I have not posted as I am really confused which way to go there (I think I'm dyslexic), and don't want to be redundant, you folks have done such a good job and your energy will gain converts.

As always in politics, small factions are competing for the ears and minds of the public. Drawing the closet right wingers out and getting them to make outrageous statements helps swing public opinion - provoking the defenders of power into over reaching and revealing their agenda. They are also trying to provoke us into making statements that can then be characterized as "crazy" or "hateful" or "offensive" or "violent" or if all goes well for them - as "communist" AND "crazy."

There is also an intimidation factor that we are supposed to pretend is not there. Many are afraid to post, but are watching and paying attention. Liberalism is run by bullies. They seek to intimidate people and restrict participation. If they can make a discussion ugly and threatening, or just chaotic and confusing, they win. On that thread there are a few "shots across the bow" - a couple of posters have been threatened. We are supposed to pretend we don't see that, of course - we are thoroughly trained to give the bullies and stalkers the benefit of the doubt - but the message is sent to the more timid that they could be fucked with in real life if they are not careful.

Yes. It is a battle of ideas and it is more important at these larger sites than at the tiny ones (like PI). The norm is to enforce group-think. The ability to raise opposite opinions and to make them both coherent and supported enough so that they can't easily be dismissed as personal eccentricity - that matters. When in doubt, compare this to the widespread adoption of libertarian "ideas", despite the fact that they are nuts. Nuts or not, they are coherent and contrast well with the standard bullshit that passes for politics.

.

I do think what you, Mike, and others? (pseudonyms not disciphered yet) are saying to these folks is going to get through to some, and the idiots are actually helping you to get out some vital points. I was of their numbers not so long ago, and am still learning, believe me many reading are thinking deeply and not posting; again I have not posted as I am really confused which way to go there (I think I'm dyslexic), and don't want to be redundant, you folks have done such a good job and your energy will gain converts.

As always in politics, small factions are competing for the ears and minds of the public. Drawing the closet right wingers out and getting them to make outrageous statements helps swing public opinion - provoking the defenders of power into over reaching and revealing their agenda. They are also trying to provoke us into making statements that can then be characterized as "crazy" or "hateful" or "offensive" or "violent" or if all goes well for them - as "communist" AND "crazy."

There is also an intimidation factor that we are supposed to pretend is not there. Many are afraid to post, but are watching and paying attention. Liberalism is run by bullies. They seek to intimidate people and restrict participation. If they can make a discussion ugly and threatening, or just chaotic and confusing, they win. On that thread there are a few "shots across the bow" - a couple of posters have been threatened. We are supposed to pretend we don't see that, of course - we are thoroughly trained to give the bullies and stalkers the benefit of the doubt - but the message is sent to the more timid that they could be fucked with in real life if they are not careful.

Yes. It is a battle of ideas and it is more important at these larger sites than at the tiny ones (like PI). The norm is to enforce group-think. The ability to raise opposite opinions and to make them both coherent and supported enough so that they can't easily be dismissed as personal eccentricity - that matters. When in doubt, compare this to the widespread adoption of libertarian "ideas", despite the fact that they are nuts. Nuts or not, they are coherent and contrast well with the standard bullshit that passes for politics.

.

Bin reading Fidel's 'My Life", don't know how many times he said that,"It is a battle of ideas." Indeed.

I do think what you, Mike, and others? (pseudonyms not disciphered yet) are saying to these folks is going to get through to some, and the idiots are actually helping you to get out some vital points. I was of their numbers not so long ago, and am still learning, believe me many reading are thinking deeply and not posting; again I have not posted as I am really confused which way to go there (I think I'm dyslexic), and don't want to be redundant, you folks have done such a good job and your energy will gain converts.

As always in politics, small factions are competing for the ears and minds of the public. Drawing the closet right wingers out and getting them to make outrageous statements helps swing public opinion - provoking the defenders of power into over reaching and revealing their agenda. They are also trying to provoke us into making statements that can then be characterized as "crazy" or "hateful" or "offensive" or "violent" or if all goes well for them - as "communist" AND "crazy."

There is also an intimidation factor that we are supposed to pretend is not there. Many are afraid to post, but are watching and paying attention. Liberalism is run by bullies. They seek to intimidate people and restrict participation. If they can make a discussion ugly and threatening, or just chaotic and confusing, they win. On that thread there are a few "shots across the bow" - a couple of posters have been threatened. We are supposed to pretend we don't see that, of course - we are thoroughly trained to give the bullies and stalkers the benefit of the doubt - but the message is sent to the more timid that they could be fucked with in real life if they are not careful.

Yes. It is a battle of ideas and it is more important at these larger sites than at the tiny ones (like PI). The norm is to enforce group-think. The ability to raise opposite opinions and to make them both coherent and supported enough so that they can't easily be dismissed as personal eccentricity - that matters. When in doubt, compare this to the widespread adoption of libertarian "ideas", despite the fact that they are nuts. Nuts or not, they are coherent and contrast well with the standard bullshit that passes for politics.

.

"but the message is sent to the more timid that they could be fucked with in real life if they are not careful." really makes my blood boil and makes me want to go in there with tongue wagging and lashing, but as you guys imply, temperance, cogency, and emotional control are critical to posting in these larger sites if the message is to get through; I really gotta work on that and probably just stfu in the meantime. Picked up a good quote from informationclearinghouse.info (the site has a tracking url that comes up when reading articles, fyi) Thought this hit the nail on the head regarding the discussion at du:

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C. S. Lewis

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C. S. Lewis

Do you know what would happen of you posted that quote at DU?

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C. S. Lewis

Do you know what would happen of you posted that quote at DU?

I'll find out. is this digging?

[quote="Mary TF":a24cqfqe] "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C. S. Lewis

Do you know what would happen of you posted that quote at DU?

I'll find out. is this digging?[/quote:a24cqfqe]

You might want to "dig" a little deeper on C.S. Lewis and on the real meaning of his words before you use that particular quote. Despite the appearance of capturing something that you and Mike are after about "liberals", I think the Lewis quote expresses a quasi-libertarian sentiment which is much more of a right-wing criticism. Moreover, it is wrong. Are "busybodies" really "worse" than "robber barons"? I think it isn't even close.
.

Irony -

I don't know anyone who is a more effective critic of the modern corporate model for organizations and leadership and participation than chlamor.

I don't know anyone who has a better handle on traditional methods of organization and leadership than Wolf.

Interestingly, I initially clashed with Wolf because I was arguing from chlamor's viewpoint, and initially clashed with chlamor because I was arguing from Wolf's viewpoint. I have always thought that reconciling the two would be very powerful.

[quote="Mary TF":if2pbc2e] "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C. S. Lewis

Do you know what would happen of you posted that quote at DU?

I'll find out. is this digging?

You might want to "dig" a little deeper on C.S. Lewis and on the real meaning of his words before you use that particular quote. Despite the appearance of capturing something that you and Mike are after about "liberals", I think the Lewis quote expresses a quasi-libertarian sentiment which is much more of a right-wing criticism. Moreover, it is wrong. Are "busybodies" really "worse" than "robber barons"? I think it isn't even close.
.[/quote:if2pbc2e]

Thanks, damage done, already posted and taken as I read it (positive response, at the end of the google thread), however you are right I should know what the context of a quote is before I use it. In my classes I frequently warn my student that they have to consider their audience when making a piece of artwork, especially one with a socio-political message. For example, no matter how hard Georgia O'Keeffe denied any sexual content in her flower paintings (which intentionally had no content but objective and formal considerations), cunneal and phallic images are always mentioned, my students spot them immediately without any promptings from me when they find these images (I have used her as one artist choice to research, the piece I use to demonstrate is a cow skull, not one of her flowers, however, the kids find them anyway when researching, I've actually not used her to avoid the inevitable conversation if not in the mood). Long way round of saying, despite CS Lewis's intent , my application and contextual use of the quote changes the meaning for this instance and is, I think, valid here (lets see if anyone else points out your point! I'll be surprised!)

The person who responded referred to limousine liberals, they may be worse than robber barons! I'm actually testing the waters there and don't want to say too much, btw. If that weren't the case, I would probably retract. I guess knowing what I know now, I'm being a bit disengenuous, especially as I shared the quote as a thanks for some phenomenal photos, so I may change my mind or at least embellish with an explanation to that effect.

I'm really disgusted by DU as a site anyway, one must be a donor to use the search option!! How does one find threads without scrolling forever...

The person who responded referred to limousine liberals, they may be worse than robber barons! I'm actually testing the waters there and don't want to say too much, btw. If that weren't the case, I would probably retract. I guess knowing what I know now, I'm being a bit disengenuous, especially as I shared the quote as a thanks for some phenomenal photos, so I may change my mind or at least embellish with an explanation to that effect.

I'm really disgusted by DU as a site anyway, one must be a donor to use the search option!! How does one find threads without scrolling forever...

There's a little icon at the top of the screen that says My DU. That has links to all of the posts you make so you can get back to them easily. I agree the lack of Search function is total bullshit.

The C. S. Lewis passage quoted is arguing for privatization - public management of resources runs the risk of "moral busybodies" creating tyranny, and that tyranny is more to be feared than the tyranny of total privatization.

The problem with the "moral busybodies" within liberalism is not the danger of tyranny, it is the distraction from talking about power and economics and the weakening of the left.

[quote="Mary TF":2qttfl0u]The person who responded referred to limousine liberals, they may be worse than robber barons! I'm actually testing the waters there and don't want to say too much, btw. If that weren't the case, I would probably retract. I guess knowing what I know now, I'm being a bit disengenuous, especially as I shared the quote as a thanks for some phenomenal photos, so I may change my mind or at least embellish with an explanation to that effect.

I'm really disgusted by DU as a site anyway, one must be a donor to use the search option!! How does one find threads without scrolling forever...

There's a little icon at the top of the screen that says My DU. That has links to all of the posts you make so you can get back to them easily. I agree the lack of Search function is total bullshit.[/quote:2qttfl0u]

Thanks Kid, I've only made three posts, (I did go back and say the quote was taken out of context), so that doesn't help me find threads I was reading, oh well no huge deal.

The C. S. Lewis passage quoted is arguing for privatization - public management of resources runs the risk of "moral busybodies" creating tyranny, and that tyranny is more to be feared than the tyranny of total privatization.

The problem with the "moral busybodies" within liberalism is not the danger of tyranny, it is the distraction from talking about power and economics and the weakening of the left.

It is quite a different thing than I read, thanks.

It is quite a different thing than I read, thanks.

Explain?

Good posts over yonder by the way.

It is quite a different thing than I read, thanks.

Explain?

Good posts over yonder by the way.

She thought the Lewis quote was criticizing the PC-police/nanny state liberal crowd

[quote="Mary TF":2mzlcd3i]It is quite a different thing than I read, thanks.

Explain?

Good posts over yonder by the way.

She thought the Lewis quote was criticizing the PC-police/nanny state liberal crowd[/quote:2mzlcd3i]

Exactly, Kid, thanks, and sorry for the delay here Mike. BTW the site I lifted the quote from was using it in that context as well...glad to have people who glean what I mean here, its usually one of you two translating for the other! m