Unless I am way off, the Penn-Clinton story could be the most important story in 30 years for the Left.

The Democrats are going to try to bury it. It reveals the utter depravity and complicity of the Dems, and outlines exactly how the destruction of the Left has been done, how "the game is played" and it splits the party wide open and can break the stranglehold the party has on power. The Republicans won't touch it because it cuts too close to the bone for them. The truth movement and conspiracy theorists won't touch it because by comparison it makes their fantasies look pretty silly.

This is a story we can pound on for months, and all of the results will be good.

I have to work today and will be back this evening. Please contact bluebear and any others at DU who are trying to keep this story alive and invite them over here. Someone needs to weave the pieces into some hard-hitting essays. More digging is needed. Post about it wherever you go online. If someone can get in touch with Newswolf that would be good I think.

"Well yes, the Penn story is important but it would, indeed, be unfair to infer from it that all Democrats are somehow implicated in or by it."

That's true. There is an alternative - lose. There is another alternative, as well - take this to the people and relentlessly demand radical and far-reaching reform.

The Clinton defenders, besides the usual "you are trying to smear my candidate and are helping the Republicans" bs and other inanities, like claiming that this is irrelvant or a distraction, are saying things like this:

"Good I am glad we have a Rove on 'our' side."

"This is the way the game is played."

They are right about this being the way the game is played. The way the game is played is the problem.

This is not so much a matter of Clinton hiring a sleazy adviser. This is more like big and corrupt corporate interests hiring Clinton as their front person. Penn, on behalf of his clients, is calling the shots in the Clinton phenomenon, not Clinton, and by extension calling the shoits for the Democratic party and for all of us, as well. There is one big tail wagging a very small dog here.

Penn is creating Clinton, and artifically manufacturing the support for her or the illusion of support, he isn't advising her. Penn and his cohorts have defined and circumscribed the political discussion in the entire country for years. Clinton is a front for powerful interests - Penn makes and breaks her, not the other way around - and those powerful interests are deceiving the public in an orchestrated campaign of manipulation, and have their slimy hands into every soical problem we are supposedly trying to change.

Triangulation, phony and manipulated polls that allegedly show support for pro-corporate and centrist policies, the whole "soccer mom" and "security mom" bullshit, pandering to racism and right wing extremism, the total unwillingness on the part of Dems to confront the right wing extremists in the government, selling out the people again and again with pro-corporate legislation - all of this was authored by Penn and his group, made up from whole cloth for the purpose of deceiving all of us.

This is not similar to an attorney, who takes on the defense of a sleazy client. This is not similar to "making a mistake" and hiring a campaign worker with a checkered past.

That gets to the heart of what is wrong not merely with the Clinton candidacy, but with the party and with the country as well.

I don't think that is necessarily an indictment of the entire Democratic party. But it will be, and is, until and unless this festering cancer of corruption and deception and manipulation is acknowledged and excised.

Fair or unfair? This whole sleazy mess is so grossly unfair to the American people that I can't see how we would worry much about it being fair or unfair to this or that politician who is in bed with this mess - which all must be if they are not to die and see their careers end, or are not willing to confront this courageously and honestly and fight on behalf of the American people.

This is the way the game is played. This is the way you win the game. This is how the illusion of public support for Clinton was manufactured, that is tied into the massive corporate funding of the Clinton candidacy - money that goes to Penn to further manipulate and deceive the public. Penn and his associates are avowed and unapologetic and highly paid masters at doing exactly this - corrupt and deceptive manipulation of the public, the media and governments - that stops at nothing.

If your candidate does not want to play this game to win, the way the game is played, your candidate will lose or be shut out from the public.

It is not like Clinton hired the wrong hair dresser. Clinton might as well work for the people Penn represents. Oh sure there is all sorts of nonsense double-talk to disguise that - all part of the PR effort.

This is "winning." This is where the "I don't care as long as they have a D after their name" and "it is all about winning" thinking inevitably leads us - into a cess pool of unprincipled destruction of everything we care about.

Will Edwards, or someone else, rise to the challenge? If they do, will they be destroyed? Would we stand with a politican who did confront this? Or will Edwards lose, or try to play the game and compete with Clinton? Can he compete without either playing the game and becoming just as corrupt and ineffective as Clinton, or instead taking a courageous stand against the big money control over our lives? Are we going to be so naive that we still cherish the illusion that there is some honorable and effective middle ground, or some way to play the game and win without selling out the people?

How naive and foolish are we going to be? How much do we care?

It is the way the game is played that is the problem. Who will stand against that?

Are we really going to be so naive and foolish as to think that Penn works for Clinton? That would be like inviting the Mafia into your small business to "advise" you, while all of your money came from Mafia connections and without which you would be nothing and HAVE no business. Sure, Penn nominally works for Clinton. But he isn't advising the Clinton campaign, he is creating it. That is what his business is all about, what he brags about being able to do, what he has made millions and millions of dollars doing for every sort of right wing death squad regime, for every slimy corporate enterprise. Where does the money come from that Clinton "pays" Penn with? Mostly from Penn's trusted and intimate corporate connections. Why are corporations pouring money into Clinton's coffers? Because they have a "made guy" on the inside, that is why. What is that money buying? It is buying a shill to advance the agenda of Penn's clients.

Clinton is beholden to Penn, not the other way around. Clinton needs Penn, not the other way around. What employement situation have you ever been in where you held 100 times more power than your boss?

Still want to "win?" Still want to be "reality based" and know how to play the game? Are you inside or outside the party? Still think that our paltry efforts, all based on a false view of the political landsacape that is being manufactured for us through deception and manipulation, can "reform tjhe party from within?" Still want to cozy up to the winners?

Until and unless people emerge in the party ready to tackle this in a radical and courageous way, here is who you are cozying up to, supporting, promoting and defending:

* The Nigerian government during the Biafran war, to discredit reports of genocide.

* The fascist junta that ruled Argentina during the 70's and early 80's, to attract foreign investment.

* The totalitarian regime of South Korea, to whitewash the human rights situation there during the 1988 Olympics.

* The Indonesian government, which got into power through a CIA- sponsored bloodbath. (It should be pointed out, however, that B-M denies that it is handling the issue of genocide in East Timor)

* Ideological barriers are no object. B-M also represented the late communist Romanian despot Nicolae Ceaucescu.

* Other third world human rights violators that have been represented by B-M include the governments of Singapore and Sri Lanka.

* Babcock & Wilcox, when its nuclear power plant in Three Mile Island had its famous mishap in 1979.

* Union Carbide, to handle the public relations crisis caused by the Bhopal tragedy in 1984.

* Exxon, to counter the negative press coverage it got in the wake of the Exxon-Valdez oil spill in 1989.

* Ontario Hydro, an industrial concern, headed by Earth Summit secretary general Maurice Strong, which is the biggest source of CO2 emissions in Canada. This corporation is currently selling nuclear reactors to Argentina and Chile.

* Erik Prince and the other Republican luminaries at the helm of the world's largest and best armed and richest and best connected private, for-profit army, they know they have a problem.

* Three days after 9/11 the government of Saudi Arabia called Burson-Marsteller.

* The government of Indonesia, accused of genocide in East Timor? Quick, someone look up the number for Burson-Marsteller.

* Malaysian Timber Industry Development Council - has felled vast areas of tropical rainforest, particularly in the states of Sarawak and Sabah, threatening the livelihoods of the indigenous peoples who lived there. BM has been hired to "repel falsehood and lies spread by evil-minded environmentalists."

* Kerr McGee - owners of a uranium mine in the Navajo Nation, New Mexico. Accused of paying low wages and not informing the workers about the hazardous effects of uranium. Deaths are being recorded every month.

* Monsanto and Eli Lilly - both companies produce the growth hormone BST to increase milk yields in cattle. It has been criticised for risk of infection in the cows, the fact that there is already a milk surplus, and unknown effects of this hormone on human beings. Acting on this concern, state legislators in Wisconsin, Minnesota, California and Vermont attempted to enforce labelling of milk produced with, and containing, this hormone. Their efforts were thwarted by Burson-Marsteller acting on behalf of these companies.

* The Louisiana-Pacific (L-P) logging company, famous for its union- busting, clear cutting of old growth forests and support for anti- environmental front groups. L-P hopes to convince its employees and the public that ruralunemployment in North America is caused by environmental extremists and opressive government regulation and not by unsustainable logging practices or the relocation of s awmills to low-wage countries like Mexico.

* B-M formed the British Columbia Forest Alliance (BCFA), a Canadian front group which has L-P among its founding members. BCFA is campaigning against restrictions on logging and is actively work ing to smear and discredit environmentalists. Other BCFA members include Mitsubishi and Weyerhaueser.

* B-M is a key player in the nuclear industry lobby. According to Canadian journalist Joyce Nelson, B-M has for years "represented top nuclear power/nuclear weapons contractors such as General Electric, AT&T, McDonnell Douglas, Asea Brown Boveri and Du Pont. In fact, Canada's first Candu [nuclear] reactor sale to Argentina in the early 1970's was later renegotiated during the reign of the military junta, for whom Burson-Marsteller did an image-cleanup from 1976-1981". In addition to this, since 1993 B-M subsidiary Black, Manafort, Stone & Kelly (see sidebar) has been representing Nordion International, a newly-privatised subsidiary of Atomic Energy of Canada Ltd., Canada's state-owned nuclear power company.

* B-M coordinated the oil industry's campaign to discredit and destroy president Clinton's proposal for a BTU tax.

* A B-M executive sits on the board of Keep America Beautiful, a front for the packaging and waste hauling industries that lobbies against mandatory recycling laws, especially the passage of a national bottle bill in the US.

* B-M's most powerful and influential 'environmental' client is the Business Council for Sustainable Development (BCSD), an eco-capitalist outfit founded by Swiss banker Stephan Schmidheiny. A leading theorist and advocate of neoliberal dogma and corporate environmentalism, Schmidheiny agressively combines entrepreneurship and statesmanship. He is a board member of NestlE9, and a director and shareholder (5% owner) of B-M client Asea Brown Boveri. BCSD's original task was to act behind the scenes at the 1992 Earth Summit, which was chaired by the current head of B-M client Ontario Hydro Maurice Strong, to neutralize and silence any voices critical of the irresponsible behavior of polluting corporations. In the words of Joyce Nelson, "With the able assistance of public relations giant Burson-Marsteller, a very elite group of business people (including B-M itself) was seemingly able to plan the agenda for the Earth Summit with little interference from NGO's or government leader s". Nowadays BCSD is advocating free markets and unfettered corporate activity as the only salvation of the environment. Its members include the CEO's of Asea Brown Boveri, Browning Ferris Industries, Ciba-Geigy, Dow Chemical, DuPont, BCFA member Mitsubishi, Maurice Strong's Ontario Hydro, Royal Dutch-Shell, and companies from Argentina, Brasil, Chile, Spain, India, Kenya, Nigeria, Thailand and Venezuela.

* B-M has plenty of experience in matters of public health. On behalf of client Philip Morris, B-M created the National Smokers' Alliance (NSA) to fight against smoking restrictions. According to John Stauber and Sheldon Rampton, the NSA "is a state-of-the-art campaign that uses full- page newspaper ads, direct telemarketing, paid canvassers, (toll free) numbers and newsletters to bring thousands of smokers into its ranks each week.

* Last week, Mr. Schoen, of Penn, Schoen & Berland, released the findings of his latest survey on the Venezuelan evening news. As expected, Penn's survey showed that Chavez's opposition, Manuel Rosales, was nearly tied in the polls with Chavez. Chavez, it showed, had only 48% support, and his opponent Manuel Rosales had gained significantly up to 42%. This poll is now being reported across all the major Venezuelan media, to a huge audience, showing that Rosales was gaining more and more everyday, and could possibly win. Mr. Schoen added his personal opinion, "The momentum is clearly with Rosales."

* It is telling to compare the web sites of Penn, Schoen and Berland and that of Greenberg's firm, Greenberg, Quinlan & Rosner: Both firms do plenty of work that is proprietary, and both have corporate clients. But Greenberg's site is full of actual data -- the link above goes to a page with 192 reports on U.S. politics, eleven since the beginning of this year alone! Penn's site has nothing; a link to "read samples of our thinking" goes to a page with links to those same data-free op-eds!

This is the way "the game is played." Still want to "win?" Still want to play?

Posted the original at DU where it sank like a stone, but then everything I post over there does. There was a problem with it though, and my fault. Is it normal for the "select all" to capture an entire thread? Still got a lot to learn about these machines, though I've learned more in the past year than in the previous four. In any case, I ended up pasting the whole damn thing to one post and decided to go for it, sans the extraneous, so it was a wee bit long. Can't get DU to give me a new password from here(what user name did I give them?) so I'll add these(as single posts!) this evening from home.

Dozens and dozens of everyday non-political people I am showing this too are intensely interested, and you know how hard it is to get everyday people interested in politics. They immediately understand the implications, both politically and morally.

Yet political people are deathly afraid of this. "Truth" movement people and conspiracy theorists won't touch it, though one would think it has all of the drama, intrigue, and nuance they seem to crave, because it is a real conspiracy and makes thier little fantasies look childish in comparison. True blue Dems and Clinton supporters are desperately trying to prevent us going down the path this information leads us. Republicans are afraid of this, because if the public starts seeing the way the game is played the Republican party will be toast.

I think the reason that people don't want to touch this, why so few are willing to see and acknowledge the implications, is because this is not merely about "the way the game is played" in power cirles or in the government, but rather this is the way the game is played everywhere in all of our personal lives.

Every day, in every thing we do we have the same three choices: lose; make a deal with the devil; risk our lives for what is right.

That is what people are trying to avoid.

Posted the original at DU where it sank like a stone, but then everything I post over there does. There was a problem with it though, and my fault. Is it normal for the "select all" to capture an entire thread? Still got a lot to learn about these machines, though I've learned more in the past year than in the previous four. In any case, I ended up pasting the whole damn thing to one post and decided to go for it, sans the extraneous, so it was a wee bit long. Can't get DU to give me a new password from here(what user name did I give them?) so I'll add these(as single posts!) this evening from home.

Yeah. I watched. The way to do this is to post one of the posts at a time, let some comments drift in and then post the next one. Wham! Wham! Wham! and that will keep it kicked for a long while.

I am going to start a new thread that has the posts in easy copy and paste form.

Posted the original at DU where it sank like a stone, but then everything I post over there does. There was a problem with it though, and my fault. Is it normal for the "select all" to capture an entire thread? Still got a lot to learn about these machines, though I've learned more in the past year than in the previous four. In any case, I ended up pasting the whole damn thing to one post and decided to go for it, sans the extraneous, so it was a wee bit long. Can't get DU to give me a new password from here(what user name did I give them?) so I'll add these(as single posts!) this evening from home.

Yeah. I watched. The way to do this is to post one of the posts at a time, let some comments drift in and then post the next one. Wham! Wham! Wham! and that will keep it kicked for a long while.

I am going to start a new thread that has the posts in easy copy and paste form.

You've relocated, no? You ain't gots the same IP. Make a new handle. It ain't like 'principle' matters to Democrats, after all.

Posted the original at DU where it sank like a stone, but then everything I post over there does. There was a problem with it though, and my fault. Is it normal for the "select all" to capture an entire thread? Still got a lot to learn about these machines, though I've learned more in the past year than in the previous four. In any case, I ended up pasting the whole damn thing to one post and decided to go for it, sans the extraneous, so it was a wee bit long. Can't get DU to give me a new password from here(what user name did I give them?) so I'll add these(as single posts!) this evening from home.

Yeah. I watched. The way to do this is to post one of the posts at a time, let some comments drift in and then post the next one. Wham! Wham! Wham! and that will keep it kicked for a long while.

I am going to start a new thread that has the posts in easy copy and paste form.

Good. I'll get on it after dinner & critter inspection.

You've relocated, no? You ain't gots the same IP. Make a new handle. It ain't like 'principle' matters to Democrats, after all.
Shhhhhhhh!!!!!!!

:lol:

These fuckin machines make me crazy. Can't get this sucker to copy more than a line on a left click, if I select all it grabs the whole thread, headers and all. Machine at work is fine, I checked, I'll deal with it in the morning., get a new account & name.

Unless I am way off, the Penn-Clinton story could be the most important story in 30 years for the Left.

The Democrats are going to try to bury it. It reveals the utter depravity and complicity of the Dems, and outlines exactly how the destruction of the Left has been done, how "the game is played" and it splits the party wide open and can break the stranglehold the party has on power. The Republicans won't touch it because it cuts too close to the bone for them. The truth movement and conspiracy theorists won't touch it because by comparison it makes their fantasies look pretty silly.

This is a story we can pound on for months, and all of the results will be good.

I have to work today and will be back this evening. Please contact bluebear and any others at DU who are trying to keep this story alive and invite them over here. Someone needs to weave the pieces into some hard-hitting essays. More digging is needed. Post about it wherever you go online. If someone can get in touch with Newswolf that would be good I think.

Sorry Mike, I read this quickly last week, honestly no spare time, and it is an important issue, I will share. I am posting a video here, know you can't get it as you are, but this is critical to the nation, and if this doesn't spur people I don't know what will, I do think the truthers do have something if they can get a fact that can't be debunked, the money is against them. this is not a truthers video it is about impeachement vs. dictatorship, and deserves immediate action and spreading:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIO-tCPSfHA

Off to search for noramalcy, hah!

Sorry Mike, I read this quickly last week, honestly no spare time, and it is an important issue, I will share. I am posting a video here, know you can't get it as you are, but this is critical to the nation, and if this doesn't spur people I don't know what will, I do think the truthers do have something if they can get a fact that can't be debunked, the money is against them.

Not so much of an issue, Mary IMHO. More like a wedge or a lever - a starting point, not a finished product - not merely yet another sausage cranked out of the analysis machine to add to the growing collection in our personal "the many issues we need to address" freezer.

I don't know if there is any way to communicate with each other any more. Plain and straight language is out - too simplistic for people's tastes. Detailed posts fall on their face - too convoluted, too complicated for people's tastes - or do they even read them? Conversation in modern America is like a giant and ongoing game of Scrabble - shuffling words around in clever ways without caring what they mean. Everyone has their own personal definition for a word, and everyone's definition is presumed to be equally valid.

A poster over at DU has been trying desperately to break through to people. No matter how she trties to approach the subject, there is always something wrong with it in people's view. There is hardly anything you can say, hardly any way to communicate with people.


Denial

After some heated exchanges I have come to a sad conclussion

Many Americans, yes even some here, are in deep denial of what precisely is happening in this country, which is so out the norm of our historical experience that it should be raising way, and I mean WAAYYY too many alarms

It couldn't happen here,

It can't be happening here

No matter how much evidence

It can't be happening here

"So this is how Republics die, in thunderous applause."

And I will have to add this line from They Thought they were Free

It applies

"To live in this process is absolutely not to be able to notice it—please try to believe me—unless one has a much greater degree of political awareness, acuity, than most of us had ever had occasion to develop. Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, ‘regretted,’ that, unless one were detached from the whole process from the beginning, unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these ‘little measures’ that no ‘patriotic German’ could resent must some day lead to, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing. One day it is over his head.

Denial (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2042837)


As we study our descent into hell we are told by some but don't, don't use one regime because we are not even close!

In this case it is the Nazis, who are so outside the realm of history that we should not do that

The logic

Well they killed 13 million people in the concentration camp system, give or take two million. I am just using the accepted number.

By that logic the USSR is out of discussion too. After all, Hitler was bad but uncle joe was worst... he managed to rack anywhere from forty to sixty million, depending on source, and he even famously quipped, one death is a tragedy, a million deaths are a statistic

So what regimes can we use?

Sadam's Iraq? Nope, or we might accidentally validate the GOP propaganda that the place under Sadamn was terrible... never mind that it was... even if we managed to help it go to an even darker night.

Hmm El Salvador? NIcaragua? Nope, they were minor events and our hands were in there

Chile: The same jerk knee reaction our see about Germany you will see with Chile, especially among right wingers in this country (and I may add some of its best special forces and commandos now work for BlackWater USA...)

Hmm how about Red China, oh wait, most folks don't know a thing about it and it is foreign, I tell you

So if you look for patterns and you use the ones that people are familiar then you get knee jerk reactions

So where exactly are we?

We are living in a society where fear is starting to be quite pervasive

Where the IRS has been used to harass people the same way it was done in 1972

Where we have a chain of secret and not so secret prisons

Where we have torture accepted in law

Where we have surveillance of the population

Where we have random detainment and release

and on, and on and on

But don't let this new reality hit you.

We are free... we like to tell ourselves, since we can post here... with no fear

We are free, since we can go to work on Monday morning and not worry about it

We are free... since it has not affected us

In the meantime we have increasing measures closing our borders

And a method that has been used by all the governments I described above... some were fascist, some were communists, but the methods used were the same

Don't pay attention to the man behind the curtain

You are free and you should not concern yourself

After all, since you have done nothing, you've got nothing to fear RIGHT?

And yes... I expect a long string of ignores following this post

I am also starting to suspect that some folks are just trying to shut down the debate... but that is a whole different mater...

Descent into Hell (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2046658)


Dachau and Guantamo and the End of America

So I'm in the midst of readying this exceptional book and to my horror and shock I come to a comparison of
both horrific places. The reason why I am horrified is that accoding to some folks there is simply no way to
compare then, and those who do this are ahistorical in the best of cases, or just damn ignorant in the worst of cases.

:sarcasm:

You know exactly who you are. But if you do not want your facile historical interpretations challenged, and your
comfortable reality that of course Guatanmo is not that bad... I would recommend you don't read the book.

On the other hand... if you don't mind the analysis as to the method on the closing of societes, even when it goes to that place, and actually breaks ground (in a book that is), then read the book

This is probably one of the most important books in the last seven years

And if we turn this around... she will deserve quite a bit of the nation's thanks for precisely going there... and
making those comparisons that make so many people have their panties in a wad.

End of America (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2041190)

but it was really messed up! nobody heard what she was saying at all!

I did get one response at another board to the Clinton-Penn story that I thought was pretty good.


You got that right... it permeates into our every day life.

I have - like some other folks - tried to conduct business fairly, whether in an organization or on my own, only to find that being honest and having integrity gets you nowhere or just plain fired from work a lot of times, and it makes me wonder if people as consumers are even ready to be dealt with fairly, the way they demand they do.

Weird, isn't it? No wonder all this has happened to us.

Basically, people are either beaten into submission or bribed into going along with things that make it harder for civilizations to stay free.

When I say bribed, it can mean a whole host of things... tricked, paid off, threatened with unemployment, whatever...
it's a racket most of us, regardless of nation, have submitted to.

Then you got us oddballs out there "keeping it real," for lack of a better phrase. We know who we are. We're the ones who hear everybody else saying, "people have to stick up for what's right," and we actually put our money where our mouth is only to find the ones who demanded we all stand up are sitting by the sidelines sneering and saying, "you should just play along so as not to piss off the boss, you'd still have a job."

Imagine if a good number of folks decided all together to not go to work for a month... stock up a little on food and share with those who could not do so.

Wow, way too much to ask for. But I bet it'd send a message. Oh lord, what would the newspapers write? The whole world might hear about it and think there was something terribly wrong with the United States...

Bet those PR folks and whatever entities would have a big contract working that one out...

Nice fantasy.

He is using colloquial every day language, and so runs the risk of being dismissed by people who judge the substance by the form, or who will demand "facts" and "links" and "proof." But when a great deal of time and effort is made to write a detailed master's thesis with lots of facts and links and proof, it becomes dead and embalmed and fosters complacency and detachment - that odd sort of modern American detachment that intellectuals are locked into - and at the same time is incomprehensible for the rest of the population. Net result - nothing is communicated that has any value or impact beyond entertaining people.

Tuesday, October 23, 2007
What do Blackwater, Ahmed Chalabi, and AT&T Have in Common?
The same PR firm, of course!

tip of the hat to seemslikeadream

More here from Raw Story. Seems that BKSH -- a subsidiary of corporate giant Burson-Marsteller -- previously represented Ahmed Chalabi (whose self-serving lies helped justify Bush's illegal invasion of Iraq) and helped coach Blackwater CEO Erik Prince (whose mercenaries recklessly opened fire a few weeks ago in Baghdad, killing innocent civilians, and whose company is facing serious allegations of tax evasion).

Now it turns out that BKSH is also helping AT&T in its efforts to evade liability for cooperation with the Bush Administration in turning over their customers' call records without a court order.

Well, they always say you can tell a lot about someone by the company they keep...

complete article: What do Blackwater, Ahmed Chalabi, and AT&T Have in Common? (http://www.workingassetsblog.com/2007/10/what_do_blackwater_ahmed_chalabi_and_att_have_in_common.html)

Blackwater Aided by PR Giant

By RICHARD LARDNER, Associated Press Writer
October 5, 2007

WASHINGTON - Public relations giant Burson-Marsteller has vast experience steering companies through tough times. But there's a limit to how much it can help Blackwater USA, a new client that's been battered by negative publicity.

The State Department, which pays Blackwater hundreds of millions of dollars to protect U.S. diplomats in Iraq, has stringent rules barring the private security contractor from discussing with the media the details of its work, according to those familiar with the arrangement.

Under those limitations, it's difficult to repair a corporate image, said one official close to Blackwater.

.....

Burson-Marsteller was brought aboard by the Washington law firms representing Blackwater _ McDermott Will & Emery and Crowell & Moring.

One of the Burson-Marsteller executives working on the Blackwater account is Robert Tappan, a former State Department official who joined Burson-Marsteller in July and is president of the company's Washington office.

At State, Tappan was deputy assistant secretary for public affairs. While at State, he spent six months in Baghdad as director of strategic communications for the Coalition Provisional Authority, the temporary governing body that disbanded in June 2004.

.....

According to the Center for Media and Democracy, Burson-Marsteller clients have included cigarette maker Philip Morris, nuclear power plant owner Entergy and Allergan, the pharmaceutical company that makes Botox.

.....

Len Biegel, a crisis management consultant who advised Johnson & Johnson 25 years ago during the Tylenol product-tampering case, said the Blackwater situation has escalated beyond a public relations emergency.
"It's really threatening the reputation of the company," Biegel said. "That puts it into the crisis category."

.....

Beau Phillips, a partner with the public relations firm Chlopak, Leonard, Schechter and Associates, said Blackwater needs to continue stressing that most of its employees are former military personnel.

"They need to help people understand that as you attack Blackwater, you're really attacking soldiers in a sense," Phillips said. "I think that's a message that would be helpful."

That may be a hard sell, however, given the unpopularity of the war in Iraq.

What was acceptable for defense contractors three years ago "will raise investigators' blood pressure today," said Richard Levick, a crisis communications expert and president of Levick Strategic Communications.

"Figuratively wrapping your company in the American flag works when the war is supported by the majority," Levick wrote in a blog posted last month on his company's Web site. "But when the tide turns, old messages no longer have the same effect."

Blackwater hires PR giant in image seige (http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2007/10/05/blackwater_hires_pr_giant_in_image_seige/)

Burson-Marsteller, from Corporate Watch UK

1.1 Overview

Burson-Marsteller (B-M) is one of the largest public relations (PR) agencies in the world and also the most reviled due to its mercenary attitude in choosing clients and contracts, and its frequent run ins with activists for environmental and other progressive causes. When helping its industry clients to escape environmental legislation or sprucing up the image of some of the most repressive governments on Earth, B-M brings to bear state of the art techniques in manipulating the mass media, legislators and public opinion.

In spite of B-M’s claims that the best way to deal with problems is to put one’s own house in order, the usual effect of PR is to maintain the status quo. By manipulating public opinion PR diverts attention away from difficult issues and creates the illusion of change so that a company or government can go about business as usual without having to worry about its reputation. By lobbying government and creating Astroturf campaigns PR helps to maintain a legislative environment on which industry can avoid real change

1.2 Market-Share/Importance

Whilst in recent years Burson-Marsteller slipped back from the number one spot it remains one of the largest PR firms in the world, and with recent restructuring looks set for strong growth in the coming years. Since 1979 the company has been a part of the Young & Rubicam Inc. advertising conglomerate, which in turn was acquired by WPP Group plc<1>, the global communications services company, in October 2000. Its revenues for 2000 totalled $175m in the US and $303m worldwide, the highest in its history.

Today Burson-Marsteller employs 2,000 people in more than 60 offices in 35 countries around the world. That gives it a more international presence than any other agency, which is both an advantage (the firm is still the first choice for clients looking for genuine global reach) and a disadvantage.

B-M’s reliance on international business makes it vulnerable to economic downturns or under-performing offices, as well as currency fluctuations. In recent years the Asian market was under-performing, then Europe, which was flat last in 1999. But B-M Europe has now moved back to a geographic structure-a reversal of the practice area commitment the agency made five years ago-more suited to local conditions, and that should spur growth. Meanwhile, the firm is picking up high-profile wins in Asia, like the Hong Kong government's economic development program, and expanding in Latin America, where it has a strong e-commerce practice.

1.3 History<2>

Founded in 1953 by Harold Burson, a freelance PR man and Jim Marsteller, owner of Marsteller Advertising, Burson-Marsteller has grown to become one of the largest PR agencies in the world and a market leader in all of the major areas of PR services.

Harold Burson’s original vision for the new company was to model it on Hill & Knowlton then the clear leader in the PR sector. He quickly took the company into new fields of PR wanting to diversify into new fields from his original speciality in business-to-business communications. B-M quickly set up offices across the USA and began to pursue larger and more prestigious clients. By 1959 revenues had reached nearly half a million dollars.

Although not yet a top tier PR firm, B-M took the gamble of moving into the European marketplace in the 1960s, a move that only Hill & Knowlton had previously taken. B-M established offices in London and Paris as well in Washington DC, and Los Angeles during the sixties.

Throughout the 1970s B-M continued to expand. In 1970 it entered the field of consumer public relations with its acquisition of Theodore R. Sills Inc. And it opened further offices in Frankfurt, Hong Kong, Singapore, Kuala Lumpur, Sao Paolo, Bahrain and in Russia. In 1979 B-M was acquired by the Young & Rubicam group of companies, and could thus begin to integrate its services with a family of other companies practising PR, lobbying and advertising.

In 1983 B-M’s revenues exceeded those of Hill & Knowlton and in 1985 it was the first PR company to earn $100m in a year. The company’s expansion was relentless and yet more offices opened across the United states and around the world.

After years as the premier public relations agency, a position that became unquestionable after H&K’s partial collapse in the early nineties, B-M saw its leadership position erode throughout the ‘90s, thanks to internal problems and the fact that several other agencies improved dramatically over the same period. With recent restructuring however it has shown string growth and in 2000 earned $303m placing it fourth in the league table of global PR firms<3>.

In 2000 Young & Rubicam was itself acquired by the WPP Group. So now Burson-Marsteller works in an even larger family of companies including its old rival Hill& Knowlton

source: Corporate Watch UK (http://www.corporatewatch.org.uk/?lid=392)

Of course it's not new, note the date. The extremely important thing is who is doing the surveilance, Burson-Marsteller. They deal with the far less public side of 'perception management'. Burson-Marsteller is expert in 'crisis management', giving it the opportunity to work with many of the most unpleasant and controversial governments and corporate bodies. When the public has lost faith in a government or corporate organization, one of Burson-Marsteller strategies is to generate 'third party support', a tactic which involves recuiting apparently impartial groups and individuals to support its cause. "The first stage of this is lobbying at government level; the second is the recuitment of experts as public supporters. Most interesting for the consumer movement is that a third tactic, generating 'grassroots' support, is becoming increasingly popular. Consumer campaigns are victims of their own success in that, as the public place significantly more trust in campaign groups than they do in either governments or trade bodies, they have become a useful tool for corporate PR.

Chalabi's INC hires PR firm; Former clients: dictators, big tobacco and Monsanto

Burson-Marsteller is working to enhance the credibility of the Iraqi National Congress as it seeks to establish itself as a legitimate force in the postinvasion Iraq," writes the Holmes Report, a PR trade publication. "B-M has been working with the Congress, led by high profile Iraqi exile Ahmed Chalabi, since 1999, under a state department contract. Chalabi and the Congress have close ties with the Bush administration, but some critics are concerned that their support within Iraq is shallow. "We've been the communications vechicle on the outside as the INC moved into northern Iraq, then to Nasiriya, and to Bagdad, ' K. Riva Levinson, who heads the INC account for Burson out of Washington, told reporters. "We were helping the INC get out statements and videos that made it clear that the exiled opposition was consolidating and moving. It's been a tremendous ride for them and us."

B-M is one of the largest public relations agencies in the world and also the most reviled due to its mercenary attitude in choosing clients and contracts, and its frequent run ins with activists for enviromental and other progressive causes. When helping its industry clients to escape enviromental legislation or sprucing up the image of some of the most repressive governments on Earth, B-M brings to bear state of the art techniques in manipulating the mass media, legislators and public opinion."

more here at Guerilla News Network (http://gnn.tv/articles/623/Spin_of_the_Week)

E-fluentials

"Burson-Marsteller has identified persuasive individuals who defy the limits of traditional viral marketing and spread the word about a company, brand or product to an average of 14 people. These are e-fluentials, defined according to their intensive use of e-mail, chat rooms, message board, company and opinion web sites. They make up 10% of the U.S. online adult population (11 million), but reach a total of 155 million U.S. adults online or offline as they tell on their experiences. E-fluentials are socially and politically engaged and vocal citizens in cyber and traditional spheres. They frequently interact with well-known news and media organizations. In doing so, e-fluentials connect the dots between companies, media organizations, policy makers and consumers."

from Reputations Research Network (http://databases.si.umich.edu/reputations/bib/bibR.cfm?idx=116)

Burson-Marsteller to Use Cyveillance Technology
December 18, 2001

Burson-Marsteller, a global communications and public relations firm, is creating an alliance with Cyveillance to allow Burson-Marsteller's corporate and institutional clients to track and respond to that which is being said about them across the Internet. Cyveillance's technology is capable of scouring the entire Internet at high speed to locate, filter and prioritze company or institution-specific dialogue, offering clients the ability to address potential issues such as negative comments about the corportation, a brand, or their service reputations.

"Negative comments or dialogue, which can be devastating to large corporation, often begin unnoticed in the recesses of the Internet," said Eric Letsinger, director, channel development, Cyveillance. "Our technology provides an early detection system to identify these threats and gauge their potential impact, allowing Burson-Marsteller to alert their clients to critical issues far in advance of a crisis."

More here: Burson-Marsteller to Use Cyveillance Technology (http://dc.internet.com/news/print.php/942201)

Dirty hands - a few of Burson-Marsteller's less public clients

Regimes
Argentina's fascist junta[/*:m:2uznqr9a]
Indonesian Government[/*:m:2uznqr9a]
El Salvadorian Government[/*:m:2uznqr9a]
Nigerian Government[/*:m:2uznqr9a]
Saudi Arabia - BKSH, a Burson Marsteller subsidiary which deals with government lobbying, was hired on Septmeber 14, to promote Saudi interest in the US following the terrorist attacks[/*:m:2uznqr9a]
Mexican Government (to promote NAFTA)[/*:m:2uznqr9a]
Romanian dictator Nicolae Ceaucescu[/*:m:2uznqr9a]
South Korea (to avoid discussion of human rights issues during the 1988 Olympics)[/*:m:2uznqr9a]
UNITA - The US sponsored Angolan guerrilla army[/*:m:2uznqr9a]

Corporate
Union Carbide (after the Bhopal disaster, which killed thousands)[/*:m:2uznqr9a]
Babcock & Wilcox (for Three Mile Island nuclear accident)[/*:m:2uznqr9a]
Exxon (following the Exxon-Valdez oil spill)[/*:m:2uznqr9a]
Europabio - a body representing the biotechnology industry[/*:m:2uznqr9a]

From Ethical Consumer magazine

Edward Neys, former U.S. Ambassador to Canada is chairman of Burson-Marsteller. He is also a director of Barrick Gold Mining. George Bush Sr. just before leaving office gave Barrick $10 billion in gold mining rights on US public land for $10,000. Then he got a job with Barrick as an international consultant.

Burson-Marsteller - A Corporate Profile (http://www.corporatewatch.org.uk/?lid=392) by Corporate Watch UK

Mark Penn, Hillary Clinton and Big Tobacco
Submitted by Bob Burton on Tue, 07/03/2007 - 00:05.

Mark Penn, CEO of the global PR firm Burson-Marsteller (B-M) and president of the polling firm Penn, Schoen and Berland Associates (PSB), feels misunderstood.

Penn was recently in the news when several union officials expressed concern that Democratic Presidential aspirant Hillary Clinton had hired him as a "key strategic adviser," even though B-M has a specialist unit that advises clients on defeating union campaigns. Not surprisingly, Clinton's campaign shrugged off the criticism, insisting that he is a "vital member of our team." In an email to Atlantic Online, Penn wrote that that he had "never personally done such [anti-labor] work" and insisted that he has "strong personal sympathies with the labor movement." (Why someone who proclaims their pro-labor sympathies would even head up a PR firm that runs an anti-labor unit went unexplained.) Even if one accepts Penn's explanation at face value, it left me wondering who he had worked for.

A little digging reveals that, for well over two decades, both Penn and his opinion polling company have advised the tobacco industry on how to counter the campaigns of the tobacco control movement. Based on internal tobacco industry documents, it is clear that Penn and his colleagues have little personal sympathy for those promoting policies that put public health ahead of the interests of the tobacco industry.
Heading for Harlem

Penn's work as a strategist and pollster for the tobacco industry goes way back. In 1989 Gus Weill from Penn and Schoen Associates (PSA), as it was known at the time, dispatched a proposal to Elizabeth Veanus of R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Company (RJR) outlining how PSA would go about researching the company's prospects of establishing a branch of a smoker's rights group in Harlem. Weill wrote that his colleagues were "extremely excited" about the project. The polling, he wrote, would be undertaken by Penn and his partner Douglas Schoen, who "have more than a decade of experience conducting groups around the country and performing research on smoking issues."

The goal of PSA's proposed research project, Weill emphasized, was "identical to your goal in entering Harlem: to get smokers' rights groups up and running with utmost speed and effectiveness." The proposal outlined some themes to explore as a way of identifying which Harlem residents could be receptive to a smokers' rights campaign. "Do they understand the ways in which smokers are penalized by society? Sure, they know about non-smoking areas but do they know that smoking is over-taxed and over-regulated?" he wrote.

To help sell the proposal, Weill included brief biographical sketches of himself, Penn and Schoen. Penn, the proposal stated, had "designed and managed all Latin American projects" for the firm, including political campaigns for Presidents Campin and Peres in Venezuela, President Barco in Colombia, President Blanco in the Dominican Republic, President Paz in Bolivia and Premier Swan in Bermuda. It is unclear from the tobacco industry records whether the "smokers' rights" project ever proceeded.

Another longstanding client of PSB, as PSA became known after Michael Berland joined the firm, is the world's largest private tobacco company, Philip Morris (PM). Like RJR, PM had tried to mobilize "grassroots" opposition to tobacco control measures. It was a strategy that relied on using a front group — in PM's case the National Smokers Alliance — to shore up political opposition to reforms while it attempted to rebuild its political defenses via traditional lobbying and PR campaigns. But as the court findings against tobacco became more frequent, PM and other tobacco companies' political standing evaporated. As the evidence of the dramatic health impacts of environmental tobacco smoke grew, support for bans on smoking in public spaces — such as bars and restaurants — grew. Once more, PSB volunteered to help defend the indefensible.
Hi-ho, Hi-ho, It's Off to Work We Go

On April 14, 1994, the seven CEO's of the major tobacco companies gave testimony before Congress, each swearing under oath that they did not believe nicotine was addictive. This spectacle became so infamous that the CEO's were dubbed the "Seven Dwarfs" by the mass media.

Just one week before this public-relations fiasco, PSB sent PM a proposed research plan on the company's Accommodation Program, a PR campaign designed to help deflate controversy over secondhand smoke in the workplace and preempt local and state legislation to end smoking in public places. PM also hoped the program would provide the company with an entrée to hospitality business owners and associations who could be used as third party allies in fighting smoking restrictions.

The proposal made it quite clear that the research would dovetail with PM's defensive battle plan: "comprehensive, independent, and credible Penn + Schoen research can help promote accommodation as the reasonable alternative to bans and demonstrate that smoking bans are bad for business."

The proposal, which came with a $479,000 price tag, then sketched the three-stage research PSB would undertake to arrive at predetermined conclusions. To help demonstrate how "reasonable" PM's position was, PSB proposed:

* undertaking an economic impact analysis of restaurant owners/bar managers in a city with a smoking ban to "demonstrate the cost of smoking bans in terms of lost jobs, lost taxes and lost profits … Demonstrating the economic power of smokers will be essential to reversing bans, and extremely valuable in stopping them in the first place";
* undertaking a series of polls at both a state and national level to "tangibly demonstrate the opposition to bans and support for accommodation … we recommend a focus on privacy and lifestyle concerns including a light-hearted approach"; and
* "a census of Accommodation program members to identify potential activists for grassroots mobilization … We can prove that a smoking ban is virtually the last reason people choose to frequent a particular restaurant and that bans may create rather than solve problems."

As part of its pitch, PSB stressed that it sympathized with PM's political plight: "We want to help re-frame the smoking debate in terms that will contrast with the extremist notions often portrayed in the media as the norm, and that are increasingly dominating public discourse."

The proposal identified Doug Schoen from the firm's New York office and Robert Green from its Washington DC office as the two staff who would work directly on the project. Once more, there are no records indicating whether the project proceeded or not.

In May 1995, PSB did a survey for the New York Tavern and Restaurant Association on what New York city residents thought about restrictions on smoking in restaurants. The following month they worked for the now defunct Tobacco Institute (TI), canvassing restaurant owners in New York City and New Jersey on what they thought might happen to their businesses if a smoking law was enacted.

For the tobacco industry, surveys based on subjective views about potential economic effects of clean indoor air standards are doubly useful. They can be waved under the noses of wavering politicians. More importantly, they can help create anxiety amongst bar owners fearful of the potential impacts of clean indoor air standards. Once fearful, bar owners are easier to mobilize to oppose smoking restrictions. However, reviews of hard data such as sales tax receipts tell another story. Americans for Non-Smokers Rights, which has reviewed the major studies on the topic, concludes that in nearly all cases the long term impact on business from smoking bans is either negligible or beneficial.
Regulatory "Compromise"

In 2001, PM hired Penn to help develop strategies to convince the Democrats in Congress "to support reasonable regulation" of the tobacco industry. PM's plan was to have surveys conducted by both Democratic and Republican pollsters; the results would support a "compromise" bipartisan position on tobacco regulation by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration.

For PM, the strategy was based on a shrewd assessment that short-term concessions would bolster its medium and longer term position in the market relative to its main competitors, such as British American Tobacco and Reynolds. It figured that PM-approved changes with bipartisan support would be more palatable than tougher standards that could emerge later.

In a summary memo of its 2001 poll, Penn and his colleague Josh King explained that they tested what they referred to as the two "extreme" positions: "do not regulate tobacco at all" and "regulate tobacco out of existence." The pollsters then presented PM's preferred elements of FDA regulation. This approach allowed them to conclude that "there are broadly appealing 'third way' approaches that voters can accept by a large majority."

"The poll shows people are looking for a constructive approach to tobacco, one that limited FDA regulation represents, and that they are more likely to support both companies and political figures that support the basic idea," they added. It was just the result PM was looking to use in its lobbying strategy, which continues today. Later that year, PM unveiled the results of polling by PSB and the Republican firm American Viewpoint. In the accompanying media release, Penn proclaimed that the results indicated that the public supported "tough meaningful FDA regulation of cigarettes that works towards goals like stopping kids from smoking and reducing the harm caused by tobacco." The research, he continued, "shows they [voters] want real action and an end to the bickering among alternatives."

As TobaccoWiki Editor Anne Landman observed in early 2007, if PM's preference for limited regulation is successful, it would:

generally preserve the status quo of "adult choice" about smoking; assure that cigarette manufacturers don't create any more risks than their products already pose; place FDA in charge of informing citizens about the risks of smoking; and prevent FDA from getting any authority to reduce or eliminate any naturally-occurring harmful constituents in cigarettes (by relegating this power only to Congress) ... If the currently-proposed bill to have FDA regulate tobacco preserves the status quo, then smoking rates will continue to fall at a painstakingly slow rate. That will be bad for public health, but great for Philip Morris.

Beyond Tobacco

Yucca MountainYucca Mountain, Nevada: The site of a proposed high-level nuclear waste dump (White House photo)
In addition to the tobacco industry, PSB has worked for clients on other controversial projects. In one 1994 document, the firm listed its work in advising the American Nuclear Energy Council on developing "a proactive strategy to limit opposition to further study of the [Yucca Mountain nuclear waste] storage facility, and for immediate acceptance." (It failed.) Another campaign was for the oil company, Texaco, on "key regulatory issues affecting the oil industry including gasoline taxes, alternative fuels and reformulated mandates, and global warming." Another was a study for an unspecified "industry coalition on regulatory issues," which PSB boasted "was cited as a justification for a 90 day moratorium on federal regulations imposed by the Bush Administration in 1992." Another was for the Council on Packaging in the Environment (COPE), a packaging industry organization. Penn's firm claimed that they had been able to "guide COPE in influencing current policy making with regard to the environment." When he joined B-M as its global CEO, the press release crowed that PSB had been "closely associated with Burson-Marsteller on developing and implementing deregulation informational programs for the electric utilities industry and in the financial services sector."

Like many in the PR industry, Penn declines to list publicly the clients for whom he has worked. As a result, our knowledge about whose interests he represents is limited. We know even less about what advice he has offered to companies and industries mired in controversy.

But what we do know is troubling enough. Penn and others in his firm have worked for the tobacco industry, the nuclear industry, the packaging industry, an oil company and other industry groups. Notably, Penn's official Burson-Marsteller biographical note avoids mentioning his work for the Tobacco Institute, R.J. Reynolds or Philip Morris. It does mention that he has has worked for Hillary Clinton "for over six years, since he ran the polling and messaging for her successful election to the US Senate in 2000."

What is on the public record about Penn's work is just a tiny sliver of what he has been doing during the thirty-plus years that he has been in the business of interpreting what citizens think, so that his clients can better shape public policy to their commercial or political ends. The omission of tobacco interests from his official biography is itself an example of spin-doctoring, and it begs the question of who else he may be representing behind the scenes.

Of particular interest is that that Penn has been advising Hillary Clinton since 2000. During that time, he has worked for Philip Morris on at least one project aimed at getting bipartisan support for legislation affecting the tobacco industry. In May 2007 Bloomberg reported that in a blog post, titled "Workin' With Hillary," Penn wrote that one of the benefits of "mixing of corporate and political work" was that it was "helpful in cross-pollinating new ideas and skills." "And," he added, "I have found it good for business."

With Penn working for a U.S. presidential candidate, we are entitled to know more about his work. The question is not whether his dual roles are "good for business" — which is undoubtedly the case — but whether it is good for public policy. Now is the time for Penn to publish his full client list, covering at least the period that he has been advising Hillary Clinton. Clinton should insist that he does.

http://www.prwatch.org/node/6213

Lot's of embedded links in above story Mike.

Despite the risks he poses, it's easy to figure out why Hillary clings to Penn. The Clintons (like the Bushes) put a premium on loyalty, and they credit Penn with saving Bill's presidency. After the 1994 election, Democrats had just lost both houses of Congress and Clinton was floundering in the polls. At the urging of his wife, Bill turned to Dick Morris, a controversial friend from their time in Arkansas. Morris knew Penn from his days as a pollster in New York and brought him into the White House. Morris decided what to poll and Penn polled it. They immediately pushed Clinton to the right, enacting the now-infamous strategy of "triangulation," which co-opted Republican policies like welfare reform and tax cuts and emphasized small-bore issues that supposedly cut across the ideological divide. "They were the ones who said 'Make the '96 election about nothing except V-Chips and school uniforms,'" says a former Clinton adviser. When Morris got caught with a call girl, Penn became the most important adviser in Clinton's second term. "In a White House where polling is virtually a religion," the Washington Post reported in 1996, "Penn is the high priest." He became known as the "most powerful man in Washington you've never heard of."

Penn, who had previously worked in the business world for companies like Texaco and Eli Lilly, brought his corporate ideology to the White House. After moving to Washington he aggressively expanded his polling firm, Penn, Schoen & Berland (PSB). It was said that Penn was the only person who could get Bill Clinton and Bill Gates on the same phone line. Penn's largest client was Microsoft, and he saw no contradiction between working for both the plaintiff and the defense in what was at the time the country's largest antitrust case. A variety of controversial clients enlisted PSB. The firm defended Procter and Gamble's Olestra from charges that it caused anal leakage, blamed Texaco's bankruptcy on greedy jurors and market-tested genetically modified foods for Monsanto. Penn invented the concept of "inoculation," in which corporations are shielded from scandal through clever advertising and marketing. Selling an image, companies realized, was as important as winning a legislative favor.

Penn kept his foot in the political world through the Clintons. In 2000 he became the chief architect of Hillary's Senate victory in New York...

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070521/berman

http://www.charlierose.com/shows/2007/1 ... ry-clinton (http://www.charlierose.com/shows/2007/10/16/2/a-conversation-with-mark-penn-chief-strategist-for-hillary-clinton)

Something is Definitely Fishy Here

There is a straw poll going on at DU for a few days now.

Edwards - 98 votes, (33%)
Kucinich - 84 votes (28%)
Clinton - 36 votes, (12%)
Obama - 34 votes (11%)
Biden - 27 votes, (9%)
Dodd - 13 votes, (4%)
Richardson - 5 votes 2%)
Gravel - 3 votes (1%)

Now, I understand the oft-repeated argument that "DU doesn't represent the party at large." I don't know what we are supposed to infer from that, but DLC apologists and Clinton supporters use it often as a weapon to bash Kucinich and Edwards supporters.

But Hell, DU doesn't represent DU in this case. 36 votes for Clinton?? In our analysis of poster behavior over there, we have found close to 30 people who do nothing but promote Clinton - more than is the case for any other candidate - some of them with 20 or more posts a day, day after day. More than once a day, every day, these people start threads about "poll results" that supposedly show Clinton with a huge and insurmountable lead. Then they post threads about how the other candidates are supposedly "getting desperate." We are seeing the careful and organized and coordinated development of a false and misleading narrative, in my opinion.

We know that Mark Penn and cohorts specialize in two things - they brag about their expertise in these areas at their website, and this sort of activity by this firm has been documented many times, so this is not controversial or in dispute.

First, concocting phony polls and disseminating them relentlessly for the purpose of steering and misleading public opinion. They engaged in a massive effort doing just this in Venzuela in an attempt at de-stabilizing the country and corrupting the elections there, to name but one example. Second, finding and directing "e-fluentials" - operatives whose job it is to spread a favorable message for Penn's clients online.

It seems highly likely that we have "e-fluentials" at work, which would explain why a candidate with 12% support gets 60% of the publicity there. DU does not represent DU, in that case. A small minority is able to loom larger then they are and steer the discussion. But the same firm has a long and sordid history of using deceptive polls - Penn and co., unlike legitimate polling firms, refuse to release their methodology or raw data to the public for scrutiny - which raises a more serious issue. Does the party represent the party? Are we being represented, or are we being marginalized and played for suckers?

Related is this body count list for Clinton sent me today:

http://www.etherzone.com/body.html

CLINTON BODY COUNT

By: Ether Zone Staff

Here is the latest body count that we have. All of these people have been connected with the Clintons in some form or another. We have not included any deaths that could not be verified or connected to the Clinton scandals. All deaths are listed chronologically by date. This list is current and accurate to the best of our knowledge as of January 13, 1999 August 1, 2000.

Susan Coleman: Rumors were circulating in Arkansas of an affair with Bill Clinton. She was found dead with a gunshot wound to the head at 7 1/2 months pregnant. Death was an apparent suicide.

Larry Guerrin: Was killed in February 1987 while investigating the INSLAW case.

Kevin Ives & Don Henry: Initial cause of death was reported to be the result of falling asleep on a railroad track in Arkansas on August 23, 1987. This ruling was reported by the State medical examiner Fahmy Malak. Later it was determined that Kevin died from a crushed skull prior to being placed on the tracks. Don had been stabbed in the back. Rumors indicate that they might have stumbled upon a Mena drug operation.

Keith Coney: Keith had information on the Ives/Henry deaths. Died in a motorcycle accident in July 1988 with unconfirmed reports of a high speed car chase.

Keith McKaskle: McKaskle has information on the Ives/Henry deaths. He was stabbed to death in November 1988.

Gregory Collins: Greg had information on the Ives/Henry deaths. He died from a gunshot wound to the face in January 1989.

Jeff Rhodes: He had information on the deaths of Ives, Henry & McKaskle. His burned body was found in a trash dump in April 1989. He died of a gunshot wound to the head and there was some body mutilation, leading to the probably speculation that he was tortured prior to being killed.

James Milam: Milam had information on the Ives & Henry deaths. He was decapitated. The state Medical examiner, Fahmy Malak, initially ruled death due to natural causes.

Richard Winters: Winters was a suspect in the deaths of Ives & Henry. He was killed in a "robbery" in July 1989 which was subsequently proven to be a setup.

Jordan Kettleson: Kettleson had information on the Ives & Henry deaths. He was found shot to death in the front seat of his pickup in June 1990.

Alan Standorf: An employee of the National Security Agency in electronic intelligence. Standorf was a source of information for Danny Casalaro who was investigating INSLAW, BCCI, etc. Standorf's body was found in the backseat of a car at Washington National Airport on Jan 31, 1991.

Dennis Eisman: An attorney with information on INSLAW. Eisman was found shot to death on April 5, 1991.

Danny Casalaro: Danny was a free-lance reporter and writer who was investigating the "October Surprise", INSLAW and BCCI. Danny was found dead in a bathtub in a Sheraton Hotel room in Martinsburg, West Virginia. Danny was staying at the hotel while keeping appointments in the DC area pertinent to his investigation. He was found with his wrists slashed. At least one, and possibly both of his wrists were cut 10 times. All of his research materials were missing and have never been recovered.

Victor Raiser: The National Finance Co-Chair for "Clinton for President." He died in a airplane crash on July 30, 1992.

R. Montgomery Raiser: Also involved in the Clinton presidential campaign. He died in the same plane crash as Victor.

Paul Tully: Tulley was on the Democratic National Committee. He was found dead of unknown causes in his hotel room on September 24, 1992. No autopsy was ever allowed.

Ian Spiro: Spiro had supporting documentation for grand jury proceedings on the INSLAW case. His wife and 3 children were found murdered on November 1, 1992 in their home. They all died of gunshot wounds to the head. Ian's body was found several days later in a parked car in the Borego Desert. Cause of death? The ingestion of cyanide. FBI report indicated that Ian had murdered his family and then committed suicide.

Paula Gober: A Clinton speech writer. She died in a car accident on December 9, 1992 with no known witnesses.

Jim Wilhite: Wilhite was an associate of Mack McClarty's former firm. Wilhite died in a skiing accident on December 21, 1992. He also had extensive ties to Clinton with whom he visited by telephone just hours before his death.

Steve Willis, Robert Williams, Todd McKeahan & Conway LeBleu: Died Feburary 28, 1993 by gunfire at Waco. All four were examined by a pathologist and died from identical wounds to the left temple. All four had been body guards for Bill Clinton, three while campaigning for President and when he was Governor of Arkansas.They also were the ONLY 4 BATF agents killed at Waco.

Sgt. Brian Haney, Sgt. Tim Sabel, Maj. William Barkley, Capt. Scott Reynolds: Died: May 19, 1993 - All four men died when their helicopter crashed in the woods near Quantico, Va. - Reporters were barred from the site, and the head of the fire department responding to the crash described it by saying, "Security was tight," with "lots of Marines with guns." A videotape made by a firefighter was seized by the Marines. All four men had escorted Clinton on his flight to the carrier Roosevelt shortly before their deaths.

John Crawford: An attorney with information on INSLAW. He died from a heart attack in Tacoma in April of 1993.

John Wilson: Found dead from an apparent hanging suicide on May 18, 1993. He was a former Washington DC council member and claimed to have info on Whitewater.

Paul Wilcher: A lawyer who was investigating drug running out of Mena, Arkansas and who also sought to expose the "October Surprise", BCCI and INSLAW. He was found in his Washington DC apartment dead of unknown causes on June 22, 1993.

Vincent Foster: A White House deputy counsel and long-time personal friend of Bill and Hillary's. Found on July 20, 1993, dead of a gunshot wound to the mouth -- a death ruled suicide. Many different theories on this case! Readers are encouraged to read our report in Strange Deaths.

Jon Parnell Walker: An investigator for the RTC who was looking into the linkage between the Whitewater and Madison S&L bankruptcy. Walker "fell" from the top of the Lincoln Towers Building.

Stanley Heard & Steven Dickson: They were members of the Clinton health care advisory committee. They died in a plane crash on September 10, 1993.

Jerry Luther Parks: Parks was the Chief of Security for Clinton's national campaign headquarters in Little Rock. Gunned down in his car on September 26, 1993 near the intersection of Chenal Parkway and Highway 10 west of Little Rock. Parks was shot through the rear window of his car. The assailant then pulled around to the driver's side of Park's car and shot him three more times with a 9mm pistol. His family reported that shortly before his death, they were being followed by unknown persons, and their home had been broken into (despite a top quality alarm system). Parks had been compiling a dossier on Clinton's illicit activities. The dossier was stolen.

Ed Willey: A Clinton fundraiser. He died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound on November 30, 1993. His death came the same day his wife, Kathleen, was sexually assaulted in the White House by Bill Clinton.

Gandy Baugh: Baugh was Lasater's attorney and committed suicide on January 8, 1994. Baugh's partner committed suicide exactly one month later on February 8, 1994.

Herschell Friday: A member of the presidential campaign finance committee. He died in an airplane explosion on March 1, 1994.

Ronald Rogers: Rogers died on March 3, 1994 just prior to releasing sensitive information to a London newspaper. Cause of death? Undetermined.

Kathy Furguson: A 38 year old hospital worker whose ex-husband is a co- defendant in the Paula Jones sexual harassment law suit. She had information supporting Paula Jone's allegations. She died of an apparent suicide on May 11, 1994 from a gunshot wound to the head.

Bill Shelton: Shelton was an Arkansas police officer and was found dead as an apparent suicide on kathy Ferguson's grave (Kathy was his girl friend), on June 12, 1994. This "suicide" was the result of a gunshot wound to the back of the head.

Stanley Huggins: Huggins, 46, was a principal in a Memphis law firm which headed a 1987 investigation into the loan practices of Madison Guaranty S&L. Stanley died in Delaware in July 1994 -- reported cause of death was viral pneumonia.

Paul Olson: A Federal witness in investigations to drug money corruption in Chicago politics, Paul had just finished 2 days of FBI interviews when his plane ride home crashed, killing Paul and 130 others on Sept 8 1994. The Sept. 15, 1994 Tempe Tribune newspaper reported that the FBI suspected that a bomb had brought down the airplane.

Calvin Walraven: 24 year on Walraven was a key witness against Jocelyn Elder's son's drug case. Walraven was found dead in his apartment with a gunshot wound to the head. Tim Hover, a Little Rock police spokesman says no foul play is suspected.

Alan G. Whicher: Oversaw Clinton's Secret Service detail. In October 1994 Whicher was transferred to the Secret Service field office in the Murrah Building in Oklahoma City. Whatever warning was given to the BATF agents in that building did not reach Alan Whicher, who died in the bomb blast of April 19th 1995.

Duane Garrett: Died July 26, 1995-A lawyer and a talk show host for KGO-AM in San Fransisco, Duane was the campaign finance chairman for Diane Fienstien's run for the senate, and was a friend and fundraiser for Al Gore. Garrett was under investigation for defrauding investors in Garrett's failed sports memorabilia venture. There was talk of a deal to evade prosecution. On July 26th, Garrett canceled an afternoon meeting with his lawyer because he had to meet some people at the San Fransisco airport. Three hours later he was found floating in the bay under the Golden Gate Bridge.

Ron Brown:. The Commerce Secretary died on April 3, 1996, in an Air Force jet carrying Brown and 34 others, including 14 business executives on a trade mission to Croatia, crashed into a mountainside. The Air Force, in a 22-volume report issued in June of 1996, confirmed its initial judgment that the crash resulted from pilot errors and faulty navigation equipment At the time of Brown's death, Independent Counsel Daniel Pearson was seeking to determine whether Brown had engaged in several sham financial transactions with longtime business partner Nolanda Hill shortly before he became secretary of commerce.

Charles Meissner: died: UNK - Following Ron Brown's death, John Huang was placed on a Commerce Department contract that allowed him to retain his security clearance
by Charles Meissner. Shortly thereafter, Meissner died in the crash of a small plane. He was an Assistant Secretary of Commerce for International Economic Policy.

William Colby: Retired CIA director was found dead on May 6,1996 after his wife reported him missing on April 27,1996. Apparently, Colby decided to go on a impromptu canoeing excursion and never returned. Colby who had just started writing for Strategic Investment newsletter, worried many in the intelligent community. Colby's past history of divulging CIA secrets in the past were well known. Strategic Investor had covered the Vince Foster suicide and had hired handwriting experts to review Foster's suicide note.

Admiral Jeremy Boorda: Died on May 16,1996 after he went home for lunch and decided to shoot himself in the chest (by one report, twice) rather than be interviewed by Newsweek magazine that afternoon. Explanations for Boorda's suicide focused on a claim that he was embarrassed over two "Valor" pins he was not authorized to wear.

Lance Herndon: Herndon a 41 year old computer specialist and a prominent entrepreneur who received a presidential appointment in 1995 died August 10, 1996 under suspicious circumstances. He appeared to have died from a blow to the head. Police said no weapons were found at his mansion, adding that Mr. Herndon had not been shot or stabbed and there was no evidence of forced entry or theft.

Neil Moody: Died -August 25, 1996 Following Vincent Foster's murder, Lisa Foster married James Moody, a judge in Arkansas, on Jan 1, 1996. Near the time Susan McDougal first went to jail for contempt, Judge Moor's son, Neil died in a car crash. There were other reports that Neil Moody had discovered something very unsettling among his stepmother's private papers and was threatening to go public with it just prior to the beginning of the Democratic National Convention. He was alleged to have been talking to Bob Woodward of the Washington Post about a blockbuster story. Witnesses said they saw Neil Moody sitting in his car arguing with another person just prior to His car suddenly speeding off out of control and hitting a brick wall.

Barbara Wise: Wise a 14-year Commerce Department employee found dead and partially naked in her office following a long weekend. She worked in the same section as John Huang. Officially, she is said to have died of natural causes.

Doug Adams: Died January 7, 1997- A lawyer in Arkansas who got involved trying to help the people who were being swindled out of their life savings. Adams was found in his vehicle with a gunshot wound to his head in a Springfield Mo. hospital parking lot.

Mary C. Mahoney: 25, murdered at the Georgetown Starbuck's coffee bar over the 4th of July '97 weekend. She was a former White House intern who worked with John Huang. Apparently she knew Monica Lewinsky and her sexual encounters with Bill Clinton. Although not verified, it has been said that Lewinsky told Linda Tripp that she did not want to end up like Mahoney.

Ronald Miller: Suddenly took ill on October 3rd,1997 and steadily worsened until his death 9 days later. (This pattern fits Ricin poisoning.) Owing to the strangeness of the illness, doctors at the Integris Baptist Medical Center referred the matter to the Oklahoma State Medical Examiner's Office. The Oklahoma State Medical Examiner's Office promptly ran tests on samples of Ron Miller's blood, but has refused to release the results or even to confirm that the tests were ever completed.

Had been investigated by authorities over the sale of his company, Gage Corp. to Dynamic Energy Resources, Inc. was the man who tape recorded Gene and Nora Lum and turned those tapes (and other records) over to congressional oversight investigators. The Lums were sentenced to prison for campaign finance violations, using "straw donors" to conceal the size of their contributions to various candidates. Indeed, Dynamic Energy Resources, Inc. had hired Ron Brown's son Michael solely for the purpose of funneling $60,000 through him to the Commerce Secretary, according to Nolanda Hill's testimony.

Sandy Hume: On Sunday, February 22nd, 1998, Sandy Hume, the 28 year old son of journalist Britt Hume, was reportedly found dead in his Arlington, Virginia home. Aside from the statement that this was an "apparent" suicide, there remains in place a total media blackout on this story, possibly out of concern that the actual facts will not withstand public scrutiny. Worked for Hill magazine, about Congress for Congress.

Jim McDougal: Bill and Hillary Clinton friend, banker, and political ally, sent to prison for eighteen felony convictions. A key whitewater witness, dies of a heart attack on March, 8 1998. As of this writing allegations that he was given an injection of the diuretic lasix has not been denied or confirmed.
Died on March 8, 1998

Johnny Lawhon: 29, died March 29, 1998- The Arkansas transmission specialist who discovered a pile of Whitewater documents in the trunk of an abandoned car on his property and turned them over to Starr, was killed in a car wreck two weeks after the McDougal death.. Details of the "accident" have been sketchy -- even from the local Little Rock newspaper.

Charles Wilbourne Miller: 63, was found dead of a gunshot wound to the head on November 17, 1998 in a shallow pit about 300 yards from his ranch house near Little Rock. Police found a .410 gauge shotgun near Miller's body and a Ruger .357-caliber revolver submerged in water. Investigators concluded the Ruger was the weapon used by Miller to kill himself. Yet, two rounds in the handgun's cylinder had been spent.

He had long served as executive vice president and member of the board of directors for a company called Alltel and was deeply involved in his own software engineering company until the day he died. Alltel is the successor to Jackson Stephens' Systematics, the company that provided the software for the White House's "Big Brother" data base system and that was behind the administration's plan to develop the secret computer "Clipper" chip to bug every phone, fax and email transmission in America.

Carlos Ghigliotti: 42, was found dead in his home just outside of Washington D.C. on April 28, 2000. There was no sign of a break-in or struggle at the firm of Infrared Technology where the badly decomposed body of Ghigliotti was found. Ghigliotti had not been seen for several weeks.

Ghigliotti, a thermal imaging analyst hired by the House Government Reform Committee to review tape of the siege, said he determined the FBI fired shots on April 19, 1993. The FBI has explained the light bursts on infrared footage as reflections of sun rays on shards of glass or other debris that littered the scene.

"I conclude this based on the groundview videotapes taken from several different angles simultaneously and based on the overhead thermal tape," Ghigliotti told The Washington Post last October. "The gunfire from the ground is there, without a doubt."

Ghigliotti said the tapes also confirm the Davidians fired repeatedly at FBI agents during the assault, which ended when flames raced through the compound. About 80 Branch Davidians perished that day, some from the fire, others from gunshot wounds.

Mark Corallo, a spokesman for the congressional committee chaired by Rep. Dan Burton, R-Ind., said that police found the business card of a committee investigator in Ghigliotti's office. Corallo said Ghigliotti's work for the committee ended some time ago.

Tony Moser: 41, was killed as he crossed a street in Pine Bluff, Ark on on June 10, 2000. Killed 10 days after being named a columnist for the Democrat-Gazette newspaper and two days after penning a stinging indictment of political corruption in Little Rock.

Police have concluded that no charges will be filed against the unnamed driver of a 1995 Chevrolet pickup, which hit Moser as he was walking alone in the middle of unlit Rhinehart Road about 10:10 p.m

Police say they have ruled out foul play and will file no charges against the driver because he was not intoxicated and there was no sign of excessive speed.

"Published originally at EtherZone.com : republication allowed with this notice and hyperlink intact."

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Updated August 1, 2000 Ether Zone Online . Copyright © 2000 Ether Zone.

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On edit, got tired of making the names bold, too many, and how many since the date??

IDFK, on edit, it seems to me the means to kill without censure, would include the means to debunk, I was told the link above was lightweight, and considering the man in charge of media's savvy all the below is probably bunk itself, I'll leave it for whatever!

http://www.snopes.%20com/politics/%20clintons/%20bodycount.%20asp

I removed the actual stuff from the link, way to much, its easy to just click if you care to go through it, I didn't read it all myself.

but it was really messed up! nobody heard what she was saying at all!

She is starting to get some attention, and is now talking about class struggle. I posted that somewhere - "Finally" is the name of the thread.