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chlamor
09-16-2010, 05:49 PM
Cuba announces firing of half a million state workers
By Bill Van Auken
15 September 2010

With its announcement that over 500,000 state workers will be fired over the next six months, the Castro regime is carrying out its most sweeping attack on Cuban workers since it came to power more than half a century ago.

The announcement was published in the official government daily Granma Monday in the name of the National Secretariat of the Central de Trabajadores de Cuba (CTC), the country’s state-controlled and only legal trade union federation.

The union’s statement served as a concretization and rubber-stamping of plans for mass layoffs that were first made public last month by President Raúl Castro, who told a meeting of the country’s parliament that the regime was determined to purge “bloated” payrolls and “wipe out forever the notion that Cuba is the only country in the world where you can live without working.”

While the use of the CTC to announce the mass layoffs was designed to create the pretense that this massive attack on jobs had been negotiated with the representatives of Cuban workers, the reality is that the federation has no independence from the state apparatus. Its statement, like the speech delivered by President Castro, was saturated with the hostility of the regime’s elite toward the Cuban workers.

It justified the mass layoffs by declaring that “inflated payrolls” in state enterprises were “burdening the economy, end up being counterproductive, generate bad habits, and warp workers’ behavior.” It was necessary, the statement continued, “to increase production and the quality of services, reduce inflated social spending, and eliminate undue gratuities, excessive subsidies, [university] studies as a source of employment, and early retirement.”

In other words, austerity all down the line. Cuban workers are confronted with an intense form of the same kind of wholesale attacks on jobs, wages and social conditions that are being implemented in country after country in response to the global capitalist crisis.

The promise that the CTC statement would provide details about the government’s plan was realized only in terms of its spelling out the sweeping and immediate character of the measures.

Fully 10 percent of the state workforce (which accounts for 85 percent of Cuba’s working population) will be laid off between now and the end of March 2011. Cuba’s official unemployment rate of 1.7 percent will increase tenfold virtually overnight. Moreover, this is only the beginning. The statement points to more than one million “excess” jobs in the state sector, stating that changes in employment will be introduced in a “gradual and progressive way” over the next four years. As for the immediate mass layoffs, it warns that because of their “magnitude and impact they will extend to every sector” of the Cuban economy.

What will happen to these workers is left far from clear by the CTC statement. It suggests, however, that Raúl Castro’s promise last month that no one would be “left to their fate” was more rhetorical than real.

Those laid off, referred to in the statement as “available” or “suspended” workers—not unemployed—are supposed to be absorbed by Cuba’s virtually nonexistent private sector, which consists of less than 600,000 people, most of them small family farmers and another 143,000 cuentapropistas, or self-employed, working mainly in areas such as barbershops, beauty parlors and taxi driving.

“Renting, usufructo [referring to long-term leases of state lands to private farmers], cooperatives and self-employment is where hundreds of thousands of workers will be moved in the coming years,” the statement said.

A smaller number of those thrown out of their jobs could get work in other sectors of the state economy, the union statement suggested. It added in a menacing tone that “the conduct and personal disposition of the person in concern will play a very important role” in determining who will be awarded such positions.

The implication is clear; those who oppose the mass layoffs will be blacklisted for any future government jobs.

The state union federation also warned that the mass layoffs would be carried out on the basis of “new norms” in which the “current treatment in terms of salary and labor rights of available and suspended” workers will be changed. “It is no longer possible to apply the formula of protecting or subsidizing workers’ wages in an indefinite way.”

Whether this means that unemployment compensation will be abolished altogether, curtailed in its length or reduced in its amount was not made clear. One thing is certain: the loss of jobs for workers in Cuba will prove every bit as much a catastrophe as it is for their counterparts everywhere else in the world. Even more so than in many other countries, social benefits are bound up with one’s place of employment.

The announcement went on to warn that the mass layoffs would be utilized as a means of increasing the exploitation of those who remain on the job. “Wages constitute a matter of singular importance,” it states. “We must revitalize the socialist principle of distribution, of paying each according to the quantity and quality of their labor. The system of payment for results, applied in centers with better adjusted payrolls, will continue being the means to increasing productivity and, as a consequence, the income of the workers.”

The “principle” invoked by the state-controlled trade union federation belongs to capitalism not socialism, which aims for the abolition of the wages system. It is a “principle” that encourages social inequality and is embraced by the ruling officialdom, whose “quality” of labor is deemed far superior to that of the average worker.

The government is also cutting back on subsidies upon which much of the population depends. It has ordered the shutdown of workplace cafeterias that assured workers free lunches and has recently removed cigarettes from ration cards that supplement workers’ wages, which average about 420 pesos, or $20 a month. Many fear that this is just the first step toward doing away with the subsidies altogether.

For decades, Cuban workers have been told that, despite their relatively low standard of living, unlike their counterparts elsewhere in Latin America, they are guaranteed jobs, education, health care and minimal state subsidies. Now, these supposed guarantees are being done away with, and the Cuban regime is in the process of creating a mass of unemployed poor, left to fend for themselves, similar to what exists elsewhere in the region.

The Wall Street Journal responded enthusiastically to the Castro regime’s announcement, implicitly associating the mass destruction of workers’ jobs as an advance for “freedom” and praising the regime for its attempt to “shift its nearly bankrupt economy to a more market-oriented system.”

“Cuba’s effort to reorient its labor force represents the country’s biggest step toward a freer economy since the early 1990s, when Havana embarked on a brief attempt to make changes in a bid to survive without subsidies after the collapse of the Soviet Union, its main benefactor,” the Journal commented.

It is clear that the Cuban government is carrying out its precipitous attacks on the jobs and social conditions of the working class under pressure of a deep-going economic and political crisis that has its roots in the global financial crisis. The government’s response is determined by the petty-bourgeois nationalist character of the regime, brought to power by a guerrilla movement in 1959 and headed by its leader, Fidel Castro, from then until four years ago, when the ailing leader was succeeded by his younger brother Raúl.

The economic crisis has had a severe impact on Cuba, which saw the price of its leading export, nickel, plummet from $50,000 a ton to less than $10,000 a ton, and a sharp contraction of tourism and remittances from Cubans in exile.

The mass layoffs announcement came in the midst of a controversy over an interview given by Fidel Castro to an American journalist in which he was quoted as saying that “The Cuban model doesn’t even work for us anymore.”

Castro subsequently claimed he had been “misinterpreted” by the journalist, Jeffrey Goldberg of the Atlantic magazine. Goldberg insisted that he had quoted the long-time Cuban head of state accurately.

Equally significant, was Castro’s statements in the interview condemning the regime in Iran for anti-Semitism and urging it “to understand why Israelis fear for their existence.”

These statements, coming at a time in which Washington is redoubling its pressure on Teheran, seemed likely to have been intended to curry favor with the US government. It follows similar gestures by the Cuban regime, including a release of 52 “dissidents” negotiated with the Vatican, the Spanish government and the European Union.

The Obama administration, however, has largely stood pat on Cuban policy, recently renewing for another year the nearly half-century-old US economic blockade of the island, while slightly easing restrictions on educational and cultural travel to the island.

Sections of US big business are pushing for further easing of the embargo, sensing that they will lose out to their European competitors under conditions in which the Cuban regime appears poised to open the doors ever wider to foreign capital. Telephone companies in particular are pressing to be allowed to operate directly on the island.

The mass layoffs announcement comes in the wake of other economic policy changes, including a pronouncement that foreign investors would be allowed to lease government land for up to 99 years. The change is designed to facilitate deals with foreign companies seeking to develop golf clubs and luxury housing for foreigners. The government said that the new rule would provide “better security and guarantees to the foreign investor.”

This measure evidently has caused significant unease. A column by Jorge Gómez Barata, a pro-government journalist and academic, entitled “Tourism for millionaires—income for millions” defended the new policy against those he accused of upholding “outdated dogmas and stereotypes.” The opening up of the country to millionaires, he said, represented “advancing towards economic, cultural and commercial standards of more or less universal character.”

The only complaint from Gómez Barata was that the new luxury housing and facilities would not be made available to Cubans “who, thanks to their work or other legal activities, have enough resources to buy them.”

There are no doubt growing layers within ruling circles who are amassing “resources,” through their connections to foreign capital and other dubious activities, that would allow them to live like millionaires.

Last June, Cuba’s ruling Communist Party expelled one of its leading intellectuals and television commentators, Esteban Morales, for warning that a rash of corruption scandals within ruling circles was symptomatic of a growing “counterrevolution” within the regime.

“Without a doubt, it is becoming evident that there are people in positions of government and state who are girding themselves financially for when the Revolution falls, and others may have everything almost ready to transfer state-owned assets to private hands, as happened in the old USSR,” Morales wrote.

As the measures announced Monday make clear, this drive toward self-enrichment by leading elements within the Castro regime can only be advanced through a frontal assault on the Cuban working class, which in turn must provoke social and political upheavals.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2010/sep2010/cuba-s15.shtml

Kid of the Black Hole
09-16-2010, 08:10 PM
but there is some serious wsws Trot bullshit in there.

Dhalgren
09-17-2010, 06:16 AM
blockade of Cuba by the US, and fails to quote Cuban Foreign Minister Rodriguez, who has a little more to say than regards "luxury housing" or whatever. I am not defending the Cuban government's actions, because I haven't been able to get a really good, clear description of what is going on, but this stuff looks way counter productive and very helpful to the blockader...


Cuba's foreign minister said Wednesday that President Barack Obama has missed a golden opportunity to improve relations, lamenting that nearly two years after he offered an olive branch to America's traditional foes, the U.S. leader has "not lived up to expectations."

In a yearly speech on the cost of America's 48-year trade embargo, which Cuba refers to as a "blockade," Foreign Minister Bruno Rodriguez said Obama had actually increased enforcement of the embargo since taking over from President George W. Bush, who had a more outwardly hardline policy toward the island.

"The policy of the blockade under President Obama ... hasn't changed at all, and one could say that in several aspects, enforcement of the blockade ... has gotten even stricter," Rodriguez said.


Read more: http://www.thirdage.com/news/cuba-layoffs-could-be-blamed-obamas-decision-keep-embargo_9-16-2010#ixzz0zn9h7CzRblockaid

blindpig
09-17-2010, 09:04 AM
I should like to check the sources they are quoting from....

I can't help but get a bad feeling about this, the beginning of the end? That the trots would engage in grave dancing is beyond poor taste. Those motherfuckers, have they no idea how hard it is to change society under the constraints Cuba faces, in some aspects harder than the Soviet Union faced? Oh wait...they don't fucking care, those assholes who pretend to be materialists engage in the most magical of thinking. Where are their ideas? Where are their revolutions?

Kid of the Black Hole
09-17-2010, 09:09 AM
Well, I still get a Trot newspaper I got talked into at a rally last year and the headling of the issue I just got this morning reads: Down With Capitalist Alliance in South Africa (paraphrase).

If you remember, Conolly took some heat for not being "pure" enough himself (being famously defended by Lenin).

Big picture, "Ultraleftism" is very clearcut, but when you get down to the nitty gritty -- whats going on in Cuba or with the Tripartite Alliance in South Africa or yesterday's Irish Republicans -- things can get a little murky.

Kid of the Black Hole
09-17-2010, 09:20 AM
Truth is that looking in is not a good way to get a grip on the real conditions or circumstances and certainly doesn't entitle us to start making assessments or, more importantly, suggestions. Pretty sure they don't need our advice.

But hey, I've met some dipshits who are head over heels about having been to Cuba..but they talk about it like fun little excurstions so I won't try to tell you its as simple as being "on the ground" either.

blindpig
09-17-2010, 09:39 AM
it was a fun little excursion, but I would never think to develop an analysis on one week's impressions, it's like looking at a photo album. The impressions were by and large good, but that doesn't tell you jackshit. That those people might again be subjected to capitalism after all of their sacrifice is depressing as hell.

Kid of the Black Hole
09-17-2010, 10:41 AM
the idiots got from it. Like its some kind of game.

I don't know about "subjected to capitalism" BP. They've been "subjected" for 50 years to the blockade and the hostilities of cpaitalist Empire.

The story is a tragedy already, but they've hung on to whatever degree and like we've discussed before, the bureaucracy doesn't have the power to simply change that by fiat without waging a civil war and then its a question of what independent CLASS the bureaucracy represents (note that the Trots have to accuse them of class collaboration with the capitalists to answer this question, so even they acknowledge the question to be most critical)

If we try to argue contra the above we're basically claiming that its a "degenerate" worker's state or "bureaucratic collectivism" and if that ain't a tipoff for us..(note that this is exactly what wsws argues above)

Remember John Reed's "10 Days.."? Everyone doesn't have to be a Bolshevik..in fact, everyone will probably *never* be a Bokshevik

blindpig
09-17-2010, 11:34 AM
and though it is the least of things it will be a sad day when Bud swallows Crystal whole... a harbinger of much worse.
[http://www.oocities.com/igioia/crystal_2.jpg

Dhalgren
09-17-2010, 12:02 PM
500,000 laid-off will increase the unemployed "ten-fold". So, after 50 years of an Iraq-like embargo, Cuba only has 50,000 "unemployed"! A "1.7%" unemployment figure! Point to any capitalist country, anywhere (that hasn't undergone such a brutal blockade) with a 1.7% unemployment rate! Also, look at what happened to Iraq and the loss of thousands of lives due to the "sanctions", but Cuba's infant mortality rate has stayed higher than the US consistently for the whole time.

Again, not making any claims regarding the "lay-offs" because I haven't been able to find any real data...

Kid of the Black Hole
09-17-2010, 01:15 PM
ignore

Kid of the Black Hole
09-17-2010, 01:15 PM
I know you operate from the perspective of "throw anything and everything into the mix and see what happens" but what was your rationale for re-producing this?

Are you buyin' it?

Dhalgren
09-26-2010, 11:35 AM
Agree about the "murk" and in the present circumstances, the murk is understandable. That being said, I think too often folks are too ready to criticize and denigrate socialist in power for a lack of...consistency. But we should look very hard at what these governments are having to deal with and face on a daily basis. They cannot be analyzed in a vacuum, but in the real world. Things being murky may be tough on us in our analysis, but that's what we are confronted with - the way it actually is...

Kid of the Black Hole
09-26-2010, 03:37 PM
I've talked to some people who, no matter how you broach the issue simply repeat "they sold out to capitalism".

Of course, they're also the type who call China a deformed worker's state (and maybe if you take out all the baggage the term carries with it, China is that, I dunno, but I know what it means when someone uses that term).

Dhalgren
09-28-2010, 06:28 AM
what it is they are doing. From this distance, it looks like the reemergence of the "middle" Kuomintang; which means the complete destruction of the revolution. But the Chinese working class and peasantry and army were all very radicalized from the 40s through the early 70s - I can't get a "feel" for how much of that is left and how integrated they all are with the "new" economy...

Kid of the Black Hole
09-28-2010, 07:36 AM
I think it was very telling. The Chinese government insisted Google provide access to how their search engine works ("secret sauce" and all that bullshit) and not filter out information that might be considered "proprietary".

Meanwhile, Google used the fact China censors pornography and anti-government rabble-rousing to claim China was against free speech. This despite the fact that one of the reasons China is so vibrant and dynamic is largely attributed to nearly unfettered access to information -- a fact that highlights to us exactly how much is covertly withheld from us while we blithely go on thinking we have free and open access. Personally, I think it shows how easy it is to get mixed up and turned around on these things.

Maybe pornograpyh is another form of bribery (and, yes, in that case I'm on the take..;))

Dhalgren
09-28-2010, 08:03 AM
China is being "presented" to the West, so that the corporations can explain why they are doing business. China is not as it is shown on US TV, I just wish I had a better handle on what was actually going on. I guess I don't like the cooperation that is so apparent these days between China and the US - it makes me uneasy. If China is playing the "long game", then I will butt-out, being out of my league...

Dhalgren
09-29-2010, 12:10 PM
On aspects of the situation in Cuba
Sexta 17 de Setembro de 2010

Statement by the Portuguese Communist Party Press Office

In response to several requests from different media on the situation in Cuba, the PCP Press Office states the following:

It is the competency of the Cuban people to sovereignly take the decisions they deem most adequate to pursue the construction of socialism, consolidate the achieved conquests and defend the territorial integrity and sovereignty of their country.

While not making pronouncements on decisions of an economic nature, it is worth underlining that the deliberate distortion broadcast to present as lay-offs a process of reorganization of activity with "labor reorientation of workers to other job posts" and "other forms of non state labor relation like rent, usufruct, cooperatives and self-employment", maintaining in many situations the same activity the exercised with the guarantee of keeping their rights and social benefits, as highlighted by the Workers Central of Cuba, has as its objective not only prolong the attack upon Cuba, but also justify the offensive directed in our country towards workers aimed at liquidating their rights and increasing exploitation.

Regarding the recent measures of "updating the economic model", at a time with the world is shaken by a violent crisis of capitalism, there are reasons to trust that a revolution that has heroically resisted the criminal blockade of the USA and that twice has been forced to restructure its economy – after the liberation for EU colonialism and following the defeats of socialism in the USSR and Eastern Europe – will successfully face new problems deriving from its development and the demands of affirmation of its project of constructing socialism.


I think that I will go along with the Portuguese assessment, here...

blindpig
10-09-2010, 09:00 AM
The self-employed sector
Much more than an alternative

Leticia Martínez Hernández

THIS past August 1 President Raúl Castro Ruz announced to the National Assembly the decision to extend the self-employed sector and use it as an another option for available workers after the necessary process of reducing the country’s inflated employment registers in the public sector. In the Assembly session, it was made known that various current restrictions would be eliminated in order to allow the authorization of new licenses and the marketing of certain products, in addition to providing greater flexibility to hire a workforce within certain activities.

Since then many people have been awaiting a solution that, far from being improvised or ephemeral, makes it possible to increase the availability of goods and services, while assuring an income to those who decide to do this work. It will contribute to the state being relieved of the burden of excessive subsidies, while placing in non-state hands goods and services which the state has provided for years in spite of a difficult economic context.

Increasing the opportunities for self-employment is one of the decisions which the country is making in terms of restructuring its economic policy, in order to increase levels of productivity and efficiency. It is also an attempt to offer workers another way of feeling useful in terms of personal effort, and to distance ourselves from those concepts that almost condemned self-employment to extinction and stigmatized those who decided to legally join that sector in the 1990s.

On August 1, the approval of a tax system of taxation for the self-employed sector was also made public, in line with the nation’s new economic scenario. Whoever contributes more, will receive more is the principle of the new tax regime that will help to increase sources of income to the state budget, and achieve an adequate redistribution of that income to society.

But, how is the self-employed sector to be extended? What activities are included in it? What restrictions are being eliminated? How is it to be organized and regulated? What taxes are to be paid? Granma went out to seek the answers to these and other questions by consulting specialists from the Ministries of Economy and Planning, Finance and Prices, and Labor and Social Security, which are preparing the regulations for self-employment, to be implemented from this October.

Self-employment, not another’s

Admi Valhuerdi Cepero, first deputy minister at the Ministry of Labor and Social Security, explained that there will be178 categories of self-employment, within which 83 may hire additional employees who do not have to be members of the same household or relatives of the business owner. "Authorizations are to be given for 29 new activities that, while they are currently exercised, were not given re-authorization a number of years back." Among them she mentioned food vendors in various categories, winemakers, saw operators, stonemasons, engine and ignition coilers, wreath and flower sellers, panel beaters, sports trainers (except martial arts), refuse recyclers, masseurs, etc.

Seven activities have been added to the existing categories, which include bookkeeping, with the exception of accountants and bookkeeping working in that specialty; park and public place restroom attendants; subject revisers, excluding active teachers; casual agricultural workers; roadside stand or cart vendors of agricultural produce from sales outlets or highway kiosks; and travel assistants, referring to those people who organize passengers with private taxis at bus and train terminals.

Valhuerdi also explained that the granting of new authorizations for self-employed work would remain limited for now to nine categories, because there is no licit market for raw materials, although viable alternatives are being studied. They are: auto body workers, marble and granite carvers and vendors; sellers of soap, shoe polish, dyes, rope and similar items; smelters and blacksmiths; flame cutters; vendors of aluminum items; floor waxers; and vendors of non-iron cast metal items.

Concerning the market for these activities, Marino Murillo Jorge, minister of economy and planning, explained, "We are designing what has to be incorporated within the economic plan for the coming year, bearing in mind the new changes which will need hardware stores and kitchen equipment that is not currently not on sale. We have to manage the plan to fit in with what has been done. The ideal is a wholesale market with different prices for the self-employed. But we are not going to be able to do that in the next few years. Right now we have to find a market where they can buy what is necessary although without differentiating retail prices."

Valhuerdi commented that, when the resolution comes into force it will allow up to 20 seats in "paladares,"(independently owned house restaurants) where places were previously limited to 12; it will allow the sale of food products made from potatoes, seafood and beef. It will also abolish the requisite of being retired or having some workplace link in order to have access to this form of employment.

With these regulations university professionals and technicians who graduated before 1964 may continue to work for themselves. In this way the work undertaken for more than 40 years by a small number of people registered in the Taxpayers Registry has been respected.

In creating greater flexibility in the self-employed sector an extension in the rental of housing has been borne in mind, which eliminates the old restrictions that have resulted in a "highly visible" network of infractions. Those prohibitions, which at one point fulfilled a function, now constitute an obstacle in the difficult problem of housing. Therefore new regulations authorize people authorized to live abroad (PRE) or those who, while living in Cuba, leave the country for more than three months, to rent out their residences. Similarly, and to support self-employed work, the regulations afford the possibility of renting homes, rooms and spaces for exercising that work.

It is worthwhile noting that homeowners can appoint a representative to ask for a license to rent on behalf of those who are not in the country and who wish to rent their homes. In all cases, approval will be up to municipal housing directors. The same situation will apply to transportation providers who decide to work in a self-employed capacity. Those who have authorization to live abroad or travel for more than three months may also name a representative to rent their vehicles.

When these new regulations come into effect, those linked to the self-employed sector, and those who join it, will be obligated to pay taxes on personal income, on sales, on public services, and for utilizing a workforce, as well as making Social Security contributions.

A special mention should be made to self-employed workers’ social security contributions, because in order to offer them protection for old age, total disability, maternity or, in the case of death, to their family, a special scheme has been organized that these workers are required to join, with the exception of those also working in the state sector, who are retirees, receiving a pension or who are beneficiaries of another Social Security program.

All of these measures related to self-employed work, which Granma is to continue detailing in upcoming issues, will make it possible for this form of employment to provide another alternative under the vigilant eye of the state which, as the representative of the people, is mandated to seek solutions to improve the standard of living of Cubans, while always respecting the socialist principles that govern our constitution. As the president stated at the 3rd Ordinary Sessions of the 7th Legislature of Parliament on August 1, 2009, the objective is to defend, maintain and continue improving socialism, not to destroy it. That is the road along which Cuba continues to travel.

The Ministry of Labor and Social Security (MTSS) regulation on the extension of self-employed work lays down that those in this sector can engage in more than one activity, within their municipality of origin or in any part of the country, as long as they meet the regulations established by the Administration Councils. Thus they will have the possibility of undertaking work at home or in any other rented premises or space. The document lays down that workers can market their good and services to state agencies within the financial limits that these have.

At the present time discussions are underway with the Central Bank of Cuba on how to facilitate bank credits for persons deciding to become self-employed in order to set up the activity they have chosen.

Officials at the National Institute of Housing have announced, from October of this year, the abolition of the prohibition on renting out entire houses in CUC; time-limited renting; and renting out buildings assigned by the state after 2001, and in those in which construction work has been carried out in recent years. These measures have been approved without exception throughout the country. The new regulation permits owners who rent to hire a workforce and undertake other self-employed activities.

http://www.granma.cu/ingles/cuba-i/27septiembre-3acpropia-a.html

Kid of the Black Hole
10-09-2010, 05:45 PM
I read a comment somewhere else that noted the State probably didn't need to be in the business of regulating every hot dog vendor in the first place.

blindpig
10-11-2010, 04:59 AM
and mebbe shoulda been done a while back. Ain't like Walmart is moving in, though no doubt the Trots see it as a fatal step on the slippery slope. Ya gotta do what ya gotta do, if ya can't sustain the people it's all meaningless.

Two Americas
10-11-2010, 07:22 PM
I have been talking to BLF about this... Are the Trots taking the same bourgeoisie approach as the liberals and progressives - seeing politics as a "belief system," trying to win converts, and then expecting society to magically change once enough people are vibrating at the same frequency, and then being hyper-alert to anyone who is harshing the buzz, interfering with the vibes?

Learn the doctrine > become a believer > maintain the faith > proselytize others > convert more people to the faith > wait patiently for the shining city on the hill to appear > meanwhile be alert to sinners and purge all heretics. BLF sent me a flier for a Marxist seminar, and it reminded me of something but I couldn't quote out my finger on it. Then it came to me - it reminds me of Catholic theological seminars: lots of intense and passionate debate about arcane and obscure points of doctrine and belief.

Kid of the Black Hole
10-11-2010, 07:41 PM
To Trots, trade unions (or councils) are supposed to be proxys for Soviets and unless they are dead ringers for their conception of what a "workers council" looks like, they're automatically bourgeoisie sellouts.

What they forget (among a great many other things they've either forgotten or never learned or purposefully overlooked) is that the new order is birthed in the ashes of the old, as a Phoenix blazing to life once more. Its not possible to take a "purisitic" line because the very concept is ungrounded in reality. Only the Mind is "pure" and that way surely lies madness (solipsism).

I've heard the argument that as the emphasis shifts to formalism and goes off in search of constructing axiomatic systems and/or analyzing them in infinite detail, that this is a signal of a crescendo that has already raced past its zenith (to mish-mash metaphors) and is on the descent (for instance, the Early Middle Ages are a great example of this). In a sense, maybe it is just a strain of liberalism that is plunging to its demise.

I'll tell you, I've been reading Trotsky recently and the thing that troubles me most is: lets say I concede that Trotsky was right in every dispute. He was the first exponent of collectivism, he correctly prophesyed the folly of socialism in one country (although his timeline needs to be extended) and so on.

How does history change one bit if he was right? What does it accomplish to note in retrospect that Social Democrats sounded the death knell of Socialism in Germany/Europe in 1923?

Further, if the bureaucracy that results is self-serving and parasitic, does this change the underlying social relations. Did Soviet Russia produce billionaires (or well, considering the times multi-multi millionaires)? Did "captains of industry and finance" dictate the course and destiny of the country?

To follow your metaphorical train of thought, the fight for socialism is the ultimate Harsh Realm, which I guess is too much of a buzzkill for these clowns.

Two Americas
10-11-2010, 09:52 PM
No. But the Soviet Union did do some things that are overlooked. The Rom and other minorities and their communities and traditions were protected. The Rom are now roaming stateless and living in refugee camps all over Europe, persecuted and scapegoated, having been driven out of Eastern Europe. Natural resources such as the primeval fruit forests in Kazakhstan were protected, which are today being destroyed. Musician and artists were supported, and today are impoverished, beggars or refugees. Those are just three unrelated things that I happen to be close to and know about, so you have to wonder how many other successes there are that we never hear about.

Two Americas
10-11-2010, 09:59 PM
The ultimate, and most damaging bourgeoisie sellout is taking a puristic line. I think they take that line because it perfects the liberal dream - to be perfectly in opposition to the ruling class while being perfectly in support of it at the same time. No wonder they are so neurotic - "only the Mind is 'pure' and that way surely lies madness."

Only by divorcing personal belief from reality can people oppose and support the ruling class at the same time.

anaxarchos
10-12-2010, 04:33 AM
Take a look at Chlamor's sig line (among the most famous of all materialist quotes) and tell me how Trots (and by no means just Trots) don't turn it on its head.

The flesh is weak. Only through the purity of spirit is its evil nature overcome. The rest is yadda yadda.

The religious analogy is actually unfair. Most religions are a thousand times more nuanced.

If you want to trace liberal thinking in its ultimate, "revolutionary", guise, it's hard to find better material to start from.

anaxarchos
10-12-2010, 04:43 AM
Why yes, it did. The Soviet ruble millionaires and then billionaires emerged from Russia's prisons. They were born of the the black and grey markets. They were suppressed and hounded without relief - so much so that simple capitalism and organized crime merged into one, nearly indistinguishable, whole.

They were the ultimate oppressed minority, hunted nearly to the point of extinction, not just once but many times. And all they ever wanted was "freedom".

I always expected an American charity to be founded in their behalf.

"Only you can save Yuri...

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