http://www.progressiveindependent.com/d ... g_id=80642 (http://www.progressiveindependent.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=80528&mesg_id=80642)

Were you the "several Marxists I know" Tin was alluding to? Which would be odd since you rarely if ever even invoke Marx given you're too busy bombarding them with evidence of their own hypocrisy and obliviousness..

Were you the "several Marxists I know" Tin was alluding to? Which would be odd since you rarely if ever even invoke Marx given you're too busy bombarding them with evidence of their own hypocrisy and obliviousness..

All of them.

No, just kidding. I think she was referring to some of the folks who chimed in at Goff's thread. I did not comment but did post anax' piece in the libertarian discussion at Mr. Feral Scholar's board.

Just for the record I like Goff. I've heard him speak twice and seeing him in person I think the guy is really solid in many respects. Someone who would be there when the chips are down. I do not think he is very solid in economic theory and tends to bring gypsy stew to every potluck. Meaning he'll throw pretty much anything into the mix even if it has no correlation to the point he is trying to make. Well that's my take FWIW.

As for Tin she wavers from moment to moment in her quasi-political positions and I don't really feel bothered by that. But to take a position as a voice of authority when one hasn't established any foothold in the basics political theory and has no interest in doing so is where the trouble begins. We know how the story goes.

It's funny you mention the Marxist thing. I've not mentioned this to anyone quite specifically but I teach Ivy League students a non-academic topic. As we are involved in our activities we engage on any number of things in the direction which I basically chart and steer. You can imagine. Well here it is as one who has read zero Marx I am called a Marxist nearly weekly when school is in session. When called that it is used as a curio. But more often than that I am called "Communist" and when that is used it is in the form of an accusation. Well that's enough of the personal bit...

As for the Goff thread how is support of a free market uber alles libertarian "throwing a monkey wrench into the system?"

Message to Stan: Don't use an illogic for the title of your essay.

My own bad history with Stan is that I find the people who highlight his articles to be on the whole a shady lot, and so I've always harbored a guilt-by-association suspiscion of Goff. Which I don't think is unreasonable, considering.

Whats funny is the few articles I read I thought his tangential forays were alot more interesting than his main thesis. I think the type of "cleverness" that leads him to devise an Endorse Ron Paul strategy is more the rule than the exception.

Although mostly I call him an asshole because of one article that really pissed me off that I felt was beyond the pale. Ironically I can't remember what it was now.

Here is one that, while not the one I flipped a shit over, is very different than my perspective:

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/w ... fada.shtml (http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/113004_haitian_intifada.shtml)

EDIT the first: and I'm intentionally not touching the elephant-in-the-room Goff topic

EDIT the second: speaking of potluck, my favorite Goff quote ever. Its gypsy stew no matter what he was writing about because its insane. I mean, reading this made me wonder if Goff is required to wear a foam helmet whenever he goes outdoors for his own protection.


Here a post-modern recognition of interpretive multiplicity, of the
indeterminacy and heterogeneity of cultural meaning and meaning-production,
is viewed as calling for new narrative approaches, aimed at the adequate
representation of textual "difference." From this perspective, the template
of gender is criticized for its fixed, binary structuring of reality and is
replaced by a narrative ideal of ceaseless textual play. But this ideal, I
argue, although it arises out of a critique of modernist epistemological
pretensions to represent reality adequately by achieving what Thomas Nagel
has called the "view from everywhere," remains animated by its own fantasies
of attaining an epistemological perspective free of the locatedness and
limitations of embodied existence - a fantasy that I call a "dream of
everywhere.

I see she hasn't gotten over her fight with Wolf and I, nor has she resolved it in her mind. She still needs to make up convoluted stories to justify her behavior to herself (and her sycophants, I suppose.) Nice to know they are still thinking about you after you've gone.

I see she hasn't gotten over her fight with Wolf and I, nor has she resolved it in her mind. She still needs to make up convoluted stories to justify her behavior to herself (and her sycophants, I suppose.) Nice to know they are still thinking about you after you've gone.

I was only perusing the PI thread but this part here from Tin is way off base:


On edit: As far as voting power goes this election, it belongs to the under 30 crowd. The same crowd that stands to be drafted and will have to foot the bill for this bipartisan mess. If you look at the places where they congregate (My Space for example), the winner is Ron Paul hands down. Kucinich came in a close second but he has no idea how to leverage that power and blew it. Ron Paul hasn't and his campaign has appreciated every single effort made by those young supporters- to the point that they go without sleep running websites, hitting the streets, printing leaflets, renting blimps, showing up at the Rose Bowl in a loud "impeach" presence. I think his chances are decent.

Almost none of the under 30 Paul Youth (and yes, I mean to elicit the sinister side of the term) are worried about being drafted or have given much though to footing bills of any kind.

Her whole fatuous rationale for jumping ships from Kucinich to Paul -- because DK doesn't know how to leverage some mythical power bequeathed to him, somewhat in the same way Peter Parker was bitten by a radioactive spider I guess -- reeks of blatant revisionism considering her history with DK.

I also think she misunderstands youth culture in general, but I'm not sure she's trying to understand it in the first place. Paul is fashionable on Myspace. Is this different from Ralph Naders fashionability 8 years ago? Yes and no. I think its a complicated question really.

Were you the "several Marxists I know" Tin was alluding to? Which would be odd since you rarely if ever even invoke Marx given you're too busy bombarding them with evidence of their own hypocrisy and obliviousness..

All of them.

No, just kidding. I think she was referring to some of the folks who chimed in at Goff's thread. I did not comment but did post anax' piece in the libertarian discussion at Mr. Feral Scholar's board.

Just for the record I like Goff. I've heard him speak twice and seeing him in person I think the guy is really solid in many respects. Someone who would be there when the chips are down. I do not think he is very solid in economic theory and tends to bring gypsy stew to every potluck. Meaning he'll throw pretty much anything into the mix even if it has no correlation to the point he is trying to make. Well that's my take FWIW.

As for Tin she wavers from moment to moment in her quasi-political positions and I don't really feel bothered by that. But to take a position as a voice of authority when one hasn't established any foothold in the basics political theory and has no interest in doing so is where the trouble begins. We know how the story goes.

It's funny you mention the Marxist thing. I've not mentioned this to anyone quite specifically but I teach Ivy League students a non-academic topic. As we are involved in our activities we engage on any number of things in the direction which I basically chart and steer. You can imagine. Well here it is as one who has read zero Marx I am called a Marxist nearly weekly when school is in session. When called that it is used as a curio. But more often than that I am called "Communist" and when that is used it is in the form of an accusation. Well that's enough of the personal bit...

As for the Goff thread how is support of a free market uber alles libertarian "throwing a monkey wrench into the system?"

Message to Stan: Don't use an illogic for the title of your essay.

Communist Manifesto. Go to marxists.org. Get it. Print it out. Read it. Then, read it again. I don't want to hear that shit that you read it before. You sure don't seem like any kinda "Marxist" or "Communist" to me.

If I gotta be a fucking nature lover, you sure as shit gotta read up a little...
.

Communist Manifesto. Go to marxists.org. Get it. Print it out. Read it. Then, read it again. I don't want to hear that shit that you read it before. You sure don't seem like any kinda "Marxist" or "Communist" to me.

If I gotta be a fucking nature lover, you sure as shit gotta read up a little...
.

Thanks for the morning smile, Anax. Though not addressed to me I will take your advice to heart.


http://www.travellingbirder.com/images/news/15.gif

http://www.birdfinders.co.uk/images/cuban-parrot-cuba-2005.jpg

The lack of any significant theoretical understanding of economic theory makes it easier to ascribe these vague noble intentions for Paul support (whether they are Youth or not). It is really quite clear what Paul stands for and it is amazing to me that so many people can't/won't see it.

Is it fear? Desperation? All these people who, at times, have had clarity as far as our completely undemocratic election process are now falling into the trap again. Do they not remember Kerry and ABB? Shit, even I fell for that on some level, went out and voted for the chump. How many people, self-declared 'leftists' said - "Never Again!"? It's ridiculous. It's like there's this 6 month window every two years when you can dig deeper, talk about root causes, focus on the potential for real, significant change, but once that campaign season kicks in again it's all forgotten and people desperately seek heroes where they know they can't possibly be.

Meh.

I guess that's why the campaign season is pretty much extended into every day of every year. Distraction. Manipulation. Propaganda. Why limit it to only a few months? It works so well...


(And for fuck's sake, even I have read Communist Manifesto!)

The lack of any significant theoretical understanding of economic theory makes it easier to ascribe these vague noble intentions for Paul support (whether they are Youth or not). It is really quite clear what Paul stands for and it is amazing to me that so many people can't/won't see it.

Is it fear? Desperation? All these people who, at times, have had clarity as far as our completely undemocratic election process are now falling into the trap again. Do they not remember Kerry and ABB? Shit, even I fell for that on some level, went out and voted for the chump. How many people, self-declared 'leftists' said - "Never Again!"? It's ridiculous. It's like there's this 6 month window every two years when you can dig deeper, talk about root causes, focus on the potential for real, significant change, but once that campaign season kicks in again it's all forgotten and people desperately seek heroes where they know they can't possibly be.

Meh.

I guess that's why the campaign season is pretty much extended into every day of every year. Distraction. Manipulation. Propaganda. Why limit it to only a few months? It works so well...


(And for fuck's sake, even I have read Communist Manifesto!)

Damn do I now feel such The Rube.

Even Megan's read the thing?

I've actually just been intuiting The Old Man no need to read him. LOL.

I better get crackin.'

Not just that,but I've read a good bit of Mao,too.


Now I am glad that I read so much Mises,and Adam Smith.Know your enemy,and all that.

hey chlamor, have you read Hamlet? it's pretty good :P

hey chlamor, have you read Hamlet? it's pretty good :P

I've seen the movie does that count? Mel Gibson was in it.

hey chlamor, have you read Hamlet? it's pretty good :P

Yeah for sure. Miss Cooper made us read it. I'm sure got an 'A' on the test and also know that I can't remember a thing about it except for the copious amounts of bloodshed. But it's easy to remember Miss Cooper in her tight skirts.

I'm gonna read the Marx thingie, what was it called again, but I'm certain I'll never lay an eye on The Bard ever again. My loss no doubt I'm just finding my attention span has dissipated dramatically since the two little guys, my children, have come around.

hey chlamor, have you read Hamlet? it's pretty good :P

Yeah for sure. Miss Cooper made us read it. I'm sure got an 'A' on the test and also know that I can't remember a thing about it except for the copious amounts of bloodshed. But it's easy to remember Miss Cooper in her tight skirts.

I'm gonna read the Marx thingie, what was it called again, but I'm certain I'll never lay an eye on The Bard ever again. My loss no doubt I'm just finding my attention span has dissipated dramatically since the two little guys, my children, have come around.

In all seriousness, read it. The very first part alone is shockingly on point. Its fucking prescient, it reads like it was written yesterday by the smartest guy in the room who sees tomorrow better than we do.

I'm gonna read the Marx thingie, what was it called again

In all seriousness, read it. The very first part alone is shockingly on point. Its fucking prescient, it reads like it was written yesterday by the smartest guy in the room who sees tomorrow better than we do.

http://www.haymarketbooks.org/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/bookcovers/cm-lg.jpg

Here, at last, is an authoritative introduction to history’s most important political document, with the full text of The Communist Manifesto by Karl Marx and Frederick Engels. This beautifully organized and presented edition of The Communist Manifesto is fully annotated, with clear historical references and explication, additional related texts, and a glossary that brings the text to life for students, as well as the general reader.
http://www.haymarketbooks.org/Merchant2 ... Code=MSACM (http://www.haymarketbooks.org/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=Haymarket&Product_Code=MSACM)

recommended

I'm gonna read the Marx thingie, what was it called again

In all seriousness, read it. The very first part alone is shockingly on point. Its fucking prescient, it reads like it was written yesterday by the smartest guy in the room who sees tomorrow better than we do.

http://www.haymarketbooks.org/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/bookcovers/cm-lg.jpg

Here, at last, is an authoritative introduction to history’s most important political document, with the full text of The Communist Manifesto by Karl Marx and Frederick Engels. This beautifully organized and presented edition of The Communist Manifesto is fully annotated, with clear historical references and explication, additional related texts, and a glossary that brings the text to life for students, as well as the general reader.
http://www.haymarketbooks.org/Merchant2 ... Code=MSACM (http://www.haymarketbooks.org/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=Haymarket&Product_Code=MSACM)

recommended

For real. It's like 80 pages long or something. A quick read. Says it all real concise-like. :)

http://www.progressiveindependent.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=80528&mesg_id=80642

This guy (http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=cheekieweekie&p=r)has put up some YouTube videos reading from PI on post modernism. Those shown as a black screen,are from PI.