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tomricc
07-19-2009, 11:21 AM
Two Laws Govern all of enery.

The total energy content of the universe and the total entropy is continually increasing.
The first law, that the total energy content of the universe is constant, is sometimes called the conservation law, which means energy cannot be created nor destroyed.
The second law, states energy is continually changing in form from available energy(useful energy) to unavailable energy(non-useful energy)
So the energy is not destroyed but changes form like burning coal, once it is burned it turns into gaseous energy and so Entropy has taken place because we cannot use that coal again, the energy is not available in the form we needed to use the energy.

This Entropy is the reason for many Civilizations past Failure once they used the available energy and the Entropy bill became so large they did not have enough available energy to sustain the Civilization.

One example of Thermodynamics and the Politics of energy is the Roman Empire.

In many ways Imperial Rome is much closer to the modern world in its way of life and in its economic, social, and political organization then to the ancient world that gave birth to it.

Rome owed it's greatness to the to it's brilliant military conquests.
Rome captured Macedonia in 167 B.C. annexing it and seizing the wealth of the country-Gold, Slaves, knowledge,Cropland,natural Resources. After several similar Conquests Rome became so Rich that the Elites nolonger even taxes the common Roman, the conquests more then paid for themselves making Rome very very Rich and Powerful.
This Continued until Rome Defeated Egypt and the Conquest made Rome so Rich they Distributed Gold Coin to the Plebian of Rome.

Later after suffering several major Defeats to the Germans and ohers, Rome Retrenched and devoted it's energy to building an infrastructure to maintain its empire.

The Shift from a Conquest based regime to a colonizing regime proved costly.
Augustus instituted taxes to pay for the improvements and to pay for the Retirement of the Military Personnel.

This angered the population since it began to take away the gains that the average Roman had previously has enjoyed.
Maintaining the Empire-Building Roads, Aquaducts,Paying for the huge Military, the bloated civil service and the public dole(1/3rd of Rome's Population was Receiving Welfare)because of the worsening Prospects for the Common Citizen.

Maintaining the Empire started to drain away Rome's Wealth and the Empire nolonger was worth the cost.

Since the Wars and Territories nolonger paid for themselves the Romans turned to thier last Wealth Maker-Agriculture.

Italy and the much of the Empire was densely forrested at the beginning but much of the forest was cut down to sell the timber and use it while the lands were turned into farm. Over grazing and over farming along with the Clear cut areas resulted in deterioration of the Soil.

During the late Empire Period agriculture provided 90% of the Governments Revenue.
Food Production became the Critical linchpin in the survival of Rome.

America has been selling it's assets off to the world to try and pay it's bills, keep the county afloat starting about 30 years ago.

Small Farmers under the increasing strain put on them by taxes and the Demand for Food over planted their farms and the soils quality decline along with production, farmers increasinly borrowed from the Elites to buy Seed and just keep their farms going. The Debts became to much and they began to sell their farms off or lose them to large land owners(Elites).

Latifundia(Great Land Estate) arose from the small Farmers decline and many of these people who lost their farms migrated to the cities and lived off the Public Dole. The land sometimes so poor now was transformed into Grazing land.

Small Farmers have been losing their land for years in America.

Much of the land in North Africa which had been very good farmland was abandon and the populations moved to Cities throughout the Empire living off the Dole or Surviving anyway they could.
Malaria became a Huge Problem because many areas were nolonger maintained and swamps/lakes that had been drained for the farmland now was reclaimed by nature and Mosquitoes and 1/3rd of the Empires Population died.

Americas Infrastructure is Crumbling and Life Expectency is droping-48th now!

The Situation became so disperate that the Government was forced to reintroduce conscription to raise its army. In 313 Emperor Constantine issued an edict requiring some sons of elder soldiers to be automatically conscripted-establishing a hereditary military service. Similar Edicts also were inacted for Hereditary Civil Service.

American Soldiers are doing 5 and 6 tours of duties, Soldiers that were retired are being pulled back into the wars.

Mostly Poor Citzens are fighting in the Military while the Rich do not serve- the Draft was done away with in 1975.
The Poor, Desperate sign up to the Military to Escape their Poverty.

Government Officials are Elites from Elite backgrounds, no common people in Government in the USA at persent-Lawyers, Oil Men, Corporate Heads,etc.

At the same time the Colonate was instituted which in effect bound agricultural workers to the land, establishing the Concept of serdom(slavery).
In America they have bound us to Debts.

Emperor Constantine Also Made The Catholic Church and Christanity the Official Roman Empire Church and Religion in the attempt to control the people and control them while the Empire Crumbled, attempting to reverse the course by using the energy of the slaves(common people) and how better then to use God as the tool to do this and combine it with the Roman Government.

This was done so the People would not wage a Civil War on the Roman Elites and what a Good way to make slaves out of Free people.

Since the Early 1980's American sure has become very Regressive and Radically Religious.

The Colonate was too little too late,it was insufficient to rev up agricultural production in dying fields.

Rome was experiencing the harsh realities imposed by the laws of thermodynamics.

Maintaining its infrastructure and population in a non-equilibrium state required large amounts of energy, but it's energy regime had become to exhausted.

By the 5th Century, the size of the Government and Military Bureaucracy had doubled and to pay for it taxes were increased, impovershing the population.

The Empire Began to consume its own capital in the form of producing lands and peasant populations.

Weakened by its depleted energy regime, the Empire Crumbled.

The Entropy Bill was enormous. The avaiable free energy of the mediterranean, North Africa nd large parts of continental Europe, reaching as far north as Spain and England had been sucked into the Roman Machine. Deforested land, Eroded Soil and impoverished and diseased populations lay scattered across the empire. Europe would not recover for another 600 years.

America has Consumed it's Oil and has done Great Environmental Damage to itself.

Economically it has been Devastated, manufacturing is gone and Agriculture in Decline(we have Trade deficits in both areas)

American has 50% of World's Debt.

American has 40% of World Correctional Population

America has been on Rome's path for a long time now.

Like the Foreign Powers that Invaded Rome and Took it's land, Foreign powers are now doing the same thing in the USA. We are a Debtor Nation selling everything off-form of Neo-colonialism against America.

And the Elite have been making deals trying to save thir own Butts and Wealth by selling everyone else out-like the Roman Elites in the last stages of Empire making deals to the Foreign Powers to keep some of their wealth in exchange for the Roman Lands, Gold, People and turning Rome into a Serfdom Until the 1500's-1000 years!

blindpig
07-20-2009, 06:50 AM
your piece did not lay sufficient emphasis to the engine of the Roman economy, slavery. It was the massive quantities of slaves taken in war and conquest and sold cheaply which made the Roman elite so prosperous. Compare the time line of conquests petering out and economic decline, it dovetails pretty good. The most valuable booty was human.

It seems to me that we sometimes to ascribe environmental decline the end reason for this or that social decline. However, this fails to look at the economic system which fostered those destructive practices. The huge landfundia, the massive acreage of pasture, could not be operated without slavery.

While it is important to point out the consequences of environmental destruction we must ask 'why'. Consider Greece, the reduction of that place to a rock pile was largely due to large scale animal husbandry, which was a feature of the slave economy adopted by classical Greece.

We can't do anything significant about the environment until we get a handle on the economic, and thus political situation.

Two Americas
07-24-2009, 03:55 PM
"Small Farmers under the increasing strain put on them by taxes and the Demand for Food over planted their farms and the soils quality decline along with production, farmers increasinly borrowed from the Elites to buy Seed and just keep their farms going. The Debts became to much and they began to sell their farms off or lose them to large land owners(Elites)."

Not true. Finance is heavily regulated through the Farm Credit program. Production and soil quality are not declining. Shortage of farmers is the problem, not a shortage of farmland. Labor shortages, developmental pressure and "free trade" are the threats to small farmers, not "the elites" and debt.

"Small Farmers have been losing their land for years in America."

Not true. The farmland is losing farmers, the farmers are not losing farmland.

People did not leave the farm because farming communities were declining, farm communities are declining because people left the farm.

"Demand for food" is not a bad nor a new thing. Demand for food does not destroy farms.

Everyone in this country who eats food is on the "public dole." That is a good thing.

carminer
07-25-2009, 07:28 AM
I think the Poster was trying to Relay the Message that Roman Farmers were put under increasing Pressure from the Elites who had over-extended and exhausted the Empire, relying on Farm Production to Prop up the Economy but since the Farmers did not rotate the Fields and Production decreased they went further and further into debt and lost their farms to larger estates.

It is a story of Environmental Devastation that eventually destroyed the Roman Empire, they cut down thier Forests, overused their Farmlands and the Cost of Maintaining the Infrastructure, Armies,Welfare payments,etc was do much for the Environment to handle.

The Romans exhausted their usable energy and in the process exhausted themselves into oblivion.

America's Oil Addiction bares a Remarkable Resemblence to Rome, it is using up it's available Resources and the cost of infrastructure,Armies,welfare,etc is exhausting the country and we may go down the same path into oblivion like many other Empires and Nation States.

The Farmers getting kicked off their land does have something to do with OIl, when Oil was plentiful the economy boomed in the USA since we had the most Oil and controlled some OIl overseas.

This trickled down throughout the economy including farmers who grew wheat and barley in huge quantities until the 1970's when the Oil Crisis hit and Food Prices skyrocketed, the Government needed a Cheaper Crop to Grow so they went to Corn and Soy Beans replacing Wheat and Barley which had been the main Crops.

It is also a story of downgrading the quality of our Food System and Farmlands.

Manufacturing Declines, Infrastructure Declines, Etc are related to the fact America does not have enough Oil and so it's energy Regime is in Decline along with the country.

IT is costing America about 3-4 Trillion dollars yearly to use OIl and stay with the Fossil fuel economy(wars, health issues, trade deficits,etc)and the Environment is also in Decline do to dirty water,Air,lands and Global Warming.

Most of our Problems are related to the Declining Energy Regime and Declining Enviroment caused by the Oil Addiction which needs to be addressed.

We need a Renewable Economy!

blindpig
07-25-2009, 08:33 AM
Your style is amazingly like the OP.

While I don't think this site has a rule against sock puppets this is pretty lame.

What's the deal with all of the caps anyway, are you German?

Two Americas
07-25-2009, 09:09 AM
I have no idea how "elites" would go about putting increasing pressure on "Roman farmers" nor how farm production would prop up an economy. None of that makes any sense.

I have no idea what you are talking about when you say that "the government needed a cheaper crop to grow."

Corn acreage in the US peaked in 1917, and changed very little between 1969 and 1999, so I don't know what you mean when you say that the government went to corn. Wheat acreage is trending down, largely because corn and soy hybrids have been developed that thrive in colder and drier climates and because they bring a better return to the farmer.

What any of this has to do with "oil addiction" I fail to see.

How can both of the following ideas be true?

- Farmland is overworked and the soil depleted because the elites are pressuring farmers.

- Farmers are being forced off the land by the elites and valuable farmland is being abandoned and not used.

Tinoire
07-25-2009, 12:03 PM
Reregistering under a different name to explain the posts you made under the account we banned.


Sorry Tom, no time for racist economics here...

Dhalgren
07-28-2009, 01:00 PM
:rofl:

Kid of the Black Hole
07-30-2009, 05:57 PM
I've done the same at DU on occasion