http://www.democraticunderground.com/118755882

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251554790#post72

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1107174409


Are you Ardent15 and YoungDemCA?

I suppose there's neither honor nor sense in running from or denying the truth.

Yes I am indeed, both of those posters (the Ardent15 account was banned a few years ago). I really have nothing to say for myself, because there's nothing there to defend or "explain".

I will say, however, is that I am deeply conflicted in my politics. Perhaps my "middle class"/bourgeois background is a part of it; maybe my deep insecurities and search for validation and approval are also factors in my fucked up behavior. What-the-fuck-ever. Doesn't justify my duplicity and borderline-schizoid behavior.

That's the honest goddamn truth...again, not defending it, and I am not asking for "forgiveness" or "understanding" or "compassion" or whatever-the-fuck from any of you, because I wouldn't expect you to give it, and I honestly can't say I blame you.

I apologize to everyone whom I "duped" here, and I actually appreciate whoever "outed" me. For there was no way that my behavior could continue indefinitely without someone "figuring it out." So to whoever you are...thank you for doing all of us (including me, albeit in a different way) a favor.

If you want to ban me, go ahead. If you want me to fuck off, I will. It's your decision, and I will respect that.

I suppose there's neither honor nor sense in running from or denying the truth.

Yes I am indeed, both of those posters (the Ardent15 account was banned a few years ago). I really have nothing to say for myself, because there's nothing there to defend or "explain".

I will say, however, is that I am deeply conflicted in my politics. Perhaps my "middle class"/bourgeois background is a part of it; maybe my deep insecurities and search for validation and approval are also factors in my fucked up behavior. What-the-fuck-ever. Doesn't justify my duplicity and borderline-schizoid behavior.

That's the honest goddamn truth...again, not defending it, and I am not asking for "forgiveness" or "understanding" or "compassion" or whatever-the-fuck from any of you, because I wouldn't expect you to give it, and I honestly can't say I blame you.

I apologize to everyone whom I "duped" here, and I actually appreciate whoever "outed" me. For there was no way that my behavior could continue indefinitely without someone "figuring it out." So to whoever you are...thank you for doing all of us (including me, albeit in a different way) a favor.

If you want to ban me, go ahead. If you want me to fuck off, I will. It's your decision, and I will respect that.

Here is my say: As far as I can see, the posts you have made here are generally good posts. They "sound" like a young man who is trying to understand politics and maybe just not grasping very well - we have all been there. Your indoctrination into US bourgeois ideologies is the same as everyone else's, and must be over come (or not) in the same way for everyone else. If you are struggling with your political schizophrenia, keep at it, it may get better. If you are just playing games with politics, you can probably play them elsewhere, we're kind of busy here.

I guess I should reply to your post Allen seeing I'm the one who brought it to light and the Kid allowed me to sign up to post here. Bear with me because my writing sucks and the grammar is even worse. This should be a confused jumble of thoughts but your post deserves at least a response.

First off..the intent was not to out you in any way other than the duplicity of your online persona. Outing someone's personal identity is an entirely different matter and I would never do it and will defend anyone who it is done to. If you might recall some years back... a few jackasses at the Old Elm Tree including one "Political Heretic" in fact tried to out your personal identity. I was there and was one who defended you in the staunchest of terms against that kind of insidious bullshit. I was also there when the vicious attacks and bans of the "dogmatic leftists" (TA, Chlamor, BP ect)... took place. I also denounced that in the strongest of terms having read the writings of those posters for many years. Ironically, I wasn't much of a dedicated leftist back then and was wrestling with my own reactionary political contradictions in such matters but always knew what side I was on despite being a confused jackass. I'm still a confused jackass but with a somewhat better understanding of leftist analysis thanks to the Bell Forum.

That brings me to why this even matters. When you play the duplicity game you've taken part in... you sully the integrity of the enormous amount of time spent and work done here (including your own) by the core group. While a complete outsider... I was an avid reader of that work. I consider the Bell Forum to be an indispensable resource of leftist agitation, writing, and research. That kind of duplicity - when it comes to light - leaves the reader with a very sour taste, makes one wonder what else is not as it seems, and makes one doubt the veracity of the whole body of work even if that's not the case. Can you understand that from the readers perspective ? I have defended this site from every reactionary liberal/progressive asshole at every turn from charges of the very things and duplicity you took part in. It leaves one feeling duped to use your words. I thought some of your thoughts here were excellent and in fact incorporated a few into some agitation for consumption elsewhere. It leaves one feeling like an asshole to then read your writings elsewhere that doesn't exactly match to say the least.

I certainly understand you're struggling with political contradictions and accept that. As Dhalgren said...many of us have been there and many are still battling fucking confusion every fucking day Allen. The point is... you haven't been very honest at all about yours lately. You were honest about them here below. Playing both ends of the fence is not the way to solve them in my view.

http://www.thebellforum.com/showthread.php?t=9879


Hell...the whole CPUSA (they think supporting Obama, Clinton, and the Democratic Party is "leftist praxis" also) might be more reactionary than your other persona at DU so I wouldn't feel all that badly about your political contradictions in the current climate :) The point is you haven't been honest about it. As much as I think Starry is a reactionary tool at least she has been somewhat honest about where she stands. You've been playing both ends of that fiddle pretty hard Allen and the jackasses at DU you're down with are the worst of the worst reactionaries. When you got Sid, Zappa, and the rest of that crew slobbering over your red-baiting posts that ain't the left man. I don't what else to say.

I'm not lecturing you here. As I said...I'm all over the place in my postings and Anax would probably laugh his ass off at my confusion if he was here but I'm honest about where I stand and it's always with the struggling blue-collar workers in the trenches on every issue on every single thing. There are sometimes contradictions to that but they can all be reconciled to working class struggle. Your defense and support of the Democratic Party can't be reconciled as a vehicle in that struggle in my view and is not something that I will ever buy into going forward. Be honest about where you stand Allen. You might find that the discussions that come out of that might clear up some of the contradictions you're having and you will get your grip on where you stand. Playing a lie on both ends is a fool's game and nothing good can come from it.

I guess I should reply to your post Allen seeing I'm the one who brought it to light and the Kid allowed me to sign up to post here. Bear with me because my writing sucks and the grammar is even worse. This should be a confused jumble of thoughts but your post deserves at least a response.

First off..the intent was not to out you in any way other than the duplicity of your online persona. Outing someone's personal identity is an entirely different matter and I would never do it and will defend anyone who it is done to. If you might recall some years back... a few jackasses at the Old Elm Tree including one "Political Heretic" in fact tried to out your personal identity. I was there and was one who defended you in the staunchest of terms against that kind of insidious bullshit. I was also there when the vicious attacks and bans of the "dogmatic leftists" (TA, Chlamor, BP ect)... took place. I also denounced that in the strongest of terms having read the writings of those posters for many years. Ironically, I wasn't much of a dedicated leftist back then and was wrestling with my own reactionary political contradictions in such matters but always knew what side I was on despite being a confused jackass. I'm still a confused jackass but with a somewhat better understanding of leftist analysis thanks to the Bell Forum.

That brings me to why this even matters. When you play the duplicity game you've taken part in... you sully the integrity of the enormous amount of time spent and work done here (including your own) by the core group. While a complete outsider... I was an avid reader of that work. I consider the Bell Forum to be an indispensable resource of leftist agitation, writing, and research. That kind of duplicity - when it comes to light - leaves the reader with a very sour taste, makes one wonder what else is not as it seems, and makes one doubt the veracity of the whole body of work even if that's not the case. Can you understand that from the readers perspective ? I have defended this site from every reactionary liberal/progressive asshole at every turn from charges of the very things and duplicity you took part in. It leaves one feeling duped to use your words. I thought some of your thoughts here were excellent and in fact incorporated a few into some agitation for consumption elsewhere. It leaves one feeling like an asshole to then read your writings elsewhere that doesn't exactly match to say the least.

I certainly understand you're struggling with political contradictions and accept that. As Dhalgren said...many of us have been there and many are still battling fucking confusion every fucking day Allen. The point is... you haven't been very honest at all about yours lately. You were honest about them here below. Playing both ends of the fence is not the way to solve them in my view.

http://www.thebellforum.com/showthread.php?t=9879


Hell...the whole CPUSA (they think supporting Obama, Clinton, and the Democratic Party is "leftist praxis" also) might be more reactionary than your other persona at DU so I wouldn't feel all that badly about your political contradictions in the current climate :) The point is you haven't been honest about it. As much as I think Starry is a reactionary tool at least she has been somewhat honest about where she stands. You've been playing both ends of that fiddle pretty hard Allen and the jackasses at DU you're down with are the worst of the worst reactionaries. When you got Sid, Zappa, and the rest of that crew slobbering over your red-baiting posts that ain't the left man. I don't what else to say.

I'm not lecturing you here. As I said...I'm all over the place in my postings and Anax would probably laugh his ass off at my confusion if he was here but I'm honest about where I stand and it's always with the struggling blue-collar workers in the trenches on every issue on every single thing. There are sometimes contradictions to that but they can all be reconciled to working class struggle. Your defense and support of the Democratic Party can't be reconciled as a vehicle in that struggle in my view and is not something that I will ever buy into going forward. Be honest about where you stand Allen. You might find that the discussions that come out of that might clear up some of the contradictions you're having and you will get your grip on where you stand. Playing a lie on both ends is a fool's game and nothing good can come from it.

Good post, SP. Welcome to the board.

Thank you SP for looking out for these things and The Kid for your sensibility here.

And Allen17 get your shit together in a hurry- time is short. If you haven't been banned at DU by now you're doing something wrong. That you're posting reactionary crap that harmonizes with the likes of Sid should cause you deep concern.

Your need to "get along" with anyone on the internet is absurd at best. Take a break start reading A LOT of history and at least some theory. If you believe in an after life you might consider what side of history you will be on rather than just today's "winning" team.

There are many instances in life where there are compromises and a middle ground. This ain't one of 'em. There's no middle ground here. Which side are you on?

I suppose there's neither honor nor sense in running from or denying the truth.

Yes I am indeed, both of those posters (the Ardent15 account was banned a few years ago). I really have nothing to say for myself, because there's nothing there to defend or "explain".

I will say, however, is that I am deeply conflicted in my politics. Perhaps my "middle class"/bourgeois background is a part of it; maybe my deep insecurities and search for validation and approval are also factors in my fucked up behavior. What-the-fuck-ever. Doesn't justify my duplicity and borderline-schizoid behavior.

That's the honest goddamn truth...again, not defending it, and I am not asking for "forgiveness" or "understanding" or "compassion" or whatever-the-fuck from any of you, because I wouldn't expect you to give it, and I honestly can't say I blame you.

I apologize to everyone whom I "duped" here, and I actually appreciate whoever "outed" me. For there was no way that my behavior could continue indefinitely without someone "figuring it out." So to whoever you are...thank you for doing all of us (including me, albeit in a different way) a favor.

If you want to ban me, go ahead. If you want me to fuck off, I will. It's your decision, and I will respect that.

Banning is too good for ya. Rather, as our comrades above say, you figure it out, if my experience is any guide, that's punishment enough.
Cause it ain't all that easy, but it's far from impossible too, if I may offer my half-assed self as an example. You know there's a ton of resources here and ask if you need, we'll do the best we can.

Good of you to post this, self-criticism is vital.

The Bell is not a clique. Allen can post or not at his own discretion (assuming he doesn't start posting large volumes of viagra ads or something). Steel Pirate didn't need an invite, he was welcome to join anytime he cared to. The only issue is that at present every user needs manual approval -- which is a bit of a problem since most signups are spam bots or otherwise malicious and it is hard for us to identify the ones who are not "bad seeds". As an unintended consequence it appears from the outside that there is some kind of membership screening process beyond simple due diligence that every web discussion forum has to engage in.

I am ambivalent toward the way things are currently set up but

1. it would take quite a bit of man power to monitor and deal with the fallout of letting everyone in and then deleting inappropriate accounts. This is not terribly practical since we have two admins and two additional core posters plus an additional handful of occasional contributors.

2. We're not awash in new people wanting to sign up. Expanding our "reach" is something to think about going forward.

(aside: engaged Gleb Bazov on twitter. Might possibly see him on here sometime -- that would make things "interesting")

As for the issue of besmirching the site, I think that is a road we cross when we get there. Since only one person seemed to be aware of Allen's "double life" I don't currently see it as an issue. If I am wrong and it is an issue or later it becomes an issue then I have no objection to him being toast (and on a personal level I don't care and would mainly like to curtail the silly shit).