Writing about the US Attorney scandal is like watching bad tee vee shows. It's a guilty pleasure. It's important and fascinating but I paused for a moment, inspired so to speak, and took a meta perspective which I think qualifies as the big "NO" that Anax referenced.

OK Anax, have at it, anyone else too. I'm told it's all about theory so I'm trying to "get some!"

What' I'm working on his how to define the active citizen's participation in the political process at a level of "the essential myth," namely that these incidents are outrages and exceptions rather than just variations on a theme. The idea of reciprocal causality is what I'd like to figure out. I tried in the last few paragraphs here. I hate the term "participant observer," which gets me nowhere intellectually; just a clever phrase of now use.

So help me over the hump to the promised land of dread and satisfaction through entry into the gnosis.

From: http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0704/S00062.htm

The Essential Myth

The shocked reaction to the abrupt dismissal of eight U.S. Attorneys points to the essence of our current political problems. The broad based political reaction to the Gonzales firings contains one critical assumption: this is an aberrant act. Something terribly wrong has taken place and the political establishment rises to defend the system.

That’s the set up and that’s the story. The set up is a lie. The firings are normal procedure. The bipartisan reaction is not so much to the injustice of it all. It’s a reaction to the total absence of art and discretion.

The system wasn’t abused so much as exposed.

SNIP

The April 1, 2007 Washington Post reiterated the official set up story: “No other administration in contemporary times has had such a clear pattern of filling chief prosecutors' jobs with its own staff members, said experts on U.S. attorney's offices.”

No other administration … had such a clear pattern are the operative terms. They all had clear patterns. In fact, just from the partial list of high crimes presented earlier, it’s obvious that the patterns of most administrations were quite clear. You do a major industry segment a big favor and they return the favor by providing big contributions. You start a big war based on outright lies and you win elections because Who will oppose a war president?

You create a crime out of nothing, the 24 incident voter fraud fiction. Preventing the nonexistent crime requires regulations that deny the votes of hundreds of thousands of minority citizens. You say you’re preventing a crime as you commit the worst of crimes. You own the system. Even contested elections do little good because we’re simply replacing one set of willing actors with another.

We’ve reached the point where the fictions enabling political and election fraud have become accepted reality. Citizens are given no choice but to take these events as a legitimate part of the political dynamic. Warily we react as if there might really be a reason to invade Iraq. The presentation of such outrageous lies as truth plus the recursive support of a captive corporate media make it seem like there are two sides to the issue. Maybe there is some connection between Saddam and Al Qaeda? Even the president’s denial of his own lie about weapons of mass destruction has no impact on the larger fiction. The process is grinding and relentless based on theatrics, repetition, and emotionally charged, fear based lies.

We become actors in the process of deceiving ourselves by simply having the decency to assume no one would be monstrous enough to, for example: start a war based on lies; deliberately let the citizens of New Orleans starve for days and suffer years of exile and deprivation; conceal the full story of 911; deregulate business in a way that causes direct harm to the public; withhold scientific information vital to individuals and the public at large, etc.

We’ve become so jaded that we accept the corruption of political leadership as being just the way things are, denying even a productive role for cynicism and doubt. It’s an elegant and deadly trap. There’s either a reason for the malfeasance or the malfeasance is an inevitable part of the system. Just accept it. We are both intended and willing victims of the system.

It’s time to say the obvious. The misuse of the federal government and federal employees to influence elections and maintain power pervades the entire political process. The individual scandals that come forward with such flourish are somehow handled to preserve the system. They are, in fact, the way the system routinely operates from top to bottom. Government authority and resources are used to maintain and perpetuate power for those who take from the many and give to the few; with full knowledge of the benefits reaped by a chosen few.

This is totally unacceptable to a civilized people. We deride banana republics yet we slip on our own peels again and again. It’s time to stop sleep walking. The corporate media has not and will not go beyond the bounds of contrived fiction and staged kabuki drama. It’s left to citizens to spread the word.

We don’t need to save this system. We need to end it and begin again with policies that benefit all Americans and provide fair and accurate elections. Elections free of corporate money, machines, and machinations are the best path to elected officials who understand and obey the law, no matter how tempting or convenient the opportunities for fraud might seem.

ENDS

By reciprocal causality do you mean that one egreious abuse (say Iraq War Resolution) spirals into the next (say Military Commisions Act) which in turn reinforces the first. If that's not it I'm not quite sure I get it.

Anyway, I don't know half what anax does about Nihilism but I'm pretty sure that they wanted to blow up the institutions not reform them. That rejection was the Big No I think.

I think this doesn't exactly qualify because even though it says "blow up the system" it reads more like "throw out this bloated corrupt system and replace it with a strikingly similar but slimmed down and more equitable system". Especially as it aims to keep on all the Congress cronies.


We don’t need to save this system. We need to end it and begin again with policies that benefit all Americans and provide fair and accurate elections. Elections free of corporate money, machines, and machinations are the best path to elected officials who understand and obey the law, no matter how tempting or convenient the opportunities for fraud might seem.

Bravo. Excellent post.


What' I'm working on his how to define the active citizen's participation in the political process at a level of "the essential myth," namely that these incidents are outrages and exceptions rather than just variations on a theme. The idea of reciprocal causality is what I'd like to figure out.

I'm in. Let's do it.


The system wasn’t abused so much as exposed.

Absolutely.


We don’t need to save this system. We need to end it and begin again with policies that benefit all Americans and provide fair and accurate elections.

Saving the system is exactly what the Dems and liberals, for the most part, are trying to do. While they dominate all discussion, they are a small minority. They should be easy to overthrow, once people realize that this is the task at hand. The unwillingness of activists to criticize their own is tantamount to surrendering the field to these people - upscale and deeply conservative and committed to the status quo, regardless of their "positions" on "issues" - and is the most important barrier for us.

People will vote Republican if it is the only alternative to the Democratic party leadership and liberal activists. They have no other choice. "But they are better than the Republicans." So would a plague of locusts be. So what? That isn't the proper question.

If you had fire fighters who refused to respond to fires and fight them, and who aggressively blocked the formation of any other fire-fighting brigade, we would not say that "they are better than the arsonists." We would say that they are worse than the arsonists, and we would wonder if they were not in fact in league with the arsonists. “But they are 'against' fire! Are you in favor of fire? Are you a closet arsonist? We have to stick together, all of us anti-fire people!”

It is time to fight the fire, and those phony fire fighters are the biggest obstacle.

Writing about the US Attorney scandal is like watching bad tee vee shows. It's a guilty pleasure. It's important and fascinating but I paused for a moment, inspired so to speak, and took a meta perspective which I think qualifies as the big "NO" that Anax referenced.

OK Anax, have at it, anyone else too. I'm told it's all about theory so I'm trying to "get some!"

What' I'm working on his how to define the active citizen's participation in the political process at a level of "the essential myth," namely that these incidents are outrages and exceptions rather than just variations on a theme. The idea of reciprocal causality is what I'd like to figure out. I tried in the last few paragraphs here. I hate the term "participant observer," which gets me nowhere intellectually; just a clever phrase of now use.

So help me over the hump to the promised land of dread and satisfaction through entry into the gnosis.

From: http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0704/S00062.htm

The Essential Myth

The shocked reaction to the abrupt dismissal of eight U.S. Attorneys points to the essence of our current political problems. The broad based political reaction to the Gonzales firings contains one critical assumption: this is an aberrant act. Something terribly wrong has taken place and the political establishment rises to defend the system.

That’s the set up and that’s the story. The set up is a lie. The firings are normal procedure. The bipartisan reaction is not so much to the injustice of it all. It’s a reaction to the total absence of art and discretion.

The system wasn’t abused so much as exposed.

SNIP

The April 1, 2007 Washington Post reiterated the official set up story: “No other administration in contemporary times has had such a clear pattern of filling chief prosecutors' jobs with its own staff members, said experts on U.S. attorney's offices.”

No other administration … had such a clear pattern are the operative terms. They all had clear patterns. In fact, just from the partial list of high crimes presented earlier, it’s obvious that the patterns of most administrations were quite clear. You do a major industry segment a big favor and they return the favor by providing big contributions. You start a big war based on outright lies and you win elections because Who will oppose a war president?

You create a crime out of nothing, the 24 incident voter fraud fiction. Preventing the nonexistent crime requires regulations that deny the votes of hundreds of thousands of minority citizens. You say you’re preventing a crime as you commit the worst of crimes. You own the system. Even contested elections do little good because we’re simply replacing one set of willing actors with another.

We’ve reached the point where the fictions enabling political and election fraud have become accepted reality. Citizens are given no choice but to take these events as a legitimate part of the political dynamic. Warily we react as if there might really be a reason to invade Iraq. The presentation of such outrageous lies as truth plus the recursive support of a captive corporate media make it seem like there are two sides to the issue. Maybe there is some connection between Saddam and Al Qaeda? Even the president’s denial of his own lie about weapons of mass destruction has no impact on the larger fiction. The process is grinding and relentless based on theatrics, repetition, and emotionally charged, fear based lies.

We become actors in the process of deceiving ourselves by simply having the decency to assume no one would be monstrous enough to, for example: start a war based on lies; deliberately let the citizens of New Orleans starve for days and suffer years of exile and deprivation; conceal the full story of 911; deregulate business in a way that causes direct harm to the public; withhold scientific information vital to individuals and the public at large, etc.

We’ve become so jaded that we accept the corruption of political leadership as being just the way things are, denying even a productive role for cynicism and doubt. It’s an elegant and deadly trap. There’s either a reason for the malfeasance or the malfeasance is an inevitable part of the system. Just accept it. We are both intended and willing victims of the system.

It’s time to say the obvious. The misuse of the federal government and federal employees to influence elections and maintain power pervades the entire political process. The individual scandals that come forward with such flourish are somehow handled to preserve the system. They are, in fact, the way the system routinely operates from top to bottom. Government authority and resources are used to maintain and perpetuate power for those who take from the many and give to the few; with full knowledge of the benefits reaped by a chosen few.

This is totally unacceptable to a civilized people. We deride banana republics yet we slip on our own peels again and again. It’s time to stop sleep walking. The corporate media has not and will not go beyond the bounds of contrived fiction and staged kabuki drama. It’s left to citizens to spread the word.

We don’t need to save this system. We need to end it and begin again with policies that benefit all Americans and provide fair and accurate elections. Elections free of corporate money, machines, and machinations are the best path to elected officials who understand and obey the law, no matter how tempting or convenient the opportunities for fraud might seem.

ENDS

OK, you asked for it...

Forget about "we", "us", "our", "citizens", "civilized people", "Americans", and all the rest of that impenetrable jive. You can't get there from here.

You want some "theory" based on the big "NO", you say... but you are dragging around so much baggage, you've got no room for it. You're the guy that goes away for the weekend with 9 suitcases, golf clubs, a gym bag....

Just fuckin stop. You are now from Mars. Or, you are Pisarev looking at a beehive. Take a close look at America and what do you really see? It's not a "plot" and it is not a play "designed" to hide anything. There is no design. It's fucking bees. Start by describing it, and foremost, the social structure: who works, who eats, who drones, how does it "work"?

We're gonna be Nihilists, remember? Then, trust nothing but what you see, as coldly and as materialistically as you can manage. The last thing we care about is what the bees "think" or believe... even though most bees think deeper thoughts than a lot of "Democrats" we both know...

http://www.exo.net/~pauld/lectures/patternscostarica/beehive600.jpeg

Mike said

People will vote Republican if it is the only alternative to the Democratic party leadership and liberal activists. They have no other choice. "But they are better than the Republicans." So would a plague of locusts be. So what? That isn't the proper question.

If you had fire fighters who refused to respond to fires and fight them, and who aggressively blocked the formation of any other fire-fighting brigade, we would not say that "they are better than the arsonists." We would say that they are worse than the arsonists, and we would wonder if they were not in fact in league with the arsonists. “But they are 'against' fire! Are you in favor of fire? Are you a closet arsonist? We have to stick together, all of us anti-fire people!”

It is time to fight the fire, and those phony fire fighters are the biggest obstacle.

I love that "People will vote Republican if it is the only alternative..." That answers a big question I've had. Complaining about the big mistake they make is really secondary to the fact that however you vote, it's a protest. That's the specific escape route for many from condescension.

The fire fighters analogy is a great one. Negligent leaders are worse than those who cause the problems because the leaders, in a position of knowledge and supposed power, do nothing. That's a very big NO there. Another conceptual problem solved.

People vote for soundrels and our first assumption should be, it's a protest vote against the other scoundrels. The 'leaders' who are 'compassionate' really fan the flames because their leadership amounts to nothing, thus allowing things to get much worse while people take the time to figure out the 'scam.'

This is good stuff. This is probably why people love fire fighters. They just show up and fight fires. They don't form a study group or issue a plan, there's no debate, it's all about the action in reaction to the problem. Sweet![/i]

Kid said:

I think this doesn't exactly qualify because even though it says "blow up the system" it reads more like "throw out this bloated corrupt system and replace it with a strikingly similar but slimmed down and more equitable system". Especially as it aims to keep on all the Congress cronies.

Kid, you're right and I resent you for it;) (except for your last sentence about 'cronies'). But that's OK. In the last paragraph, I say basically that. I'm of the view that while the execution and acceptance of the basic ideas of this country were far from perfect, the ideas themselves are timeless and of great value. Anax is giving me some shit about this too. I have to think about it more. Obviously, to me anyway, I should have mentioned the larger tradition of seeing where the system went wrong in the past, as wel as the present turmoil. Leaving that out belies the damage done from the consistent pattern of lies and self serving deception.

Food for thought thanks!

I'm of the view that while the execution and acceptance of the basic ideas of this country were far from perfect, the ideas themselves are timeless and of great value. Anax is giving me some shit about this too. I have to think about it more. Obviously, to me anyway, I should have mentioned the larger tradition of seeing where the system went wrong in the past, as wel as the present turmoil. Leaving that out belies the damage done from the consistent pattern of lies and self serving deception.

Well, then... no BIG "NO" for you... sorry.

At best you might getta medium sized "sorta".

http://www.bridgetteofmadisoncounty.com/site/img/d66anniv.jpg

Anaxarchos said:

OK, you asked for it...

Forget about "we", "us", "our", "citizens", "civilized people", "Americans", and all the rest of that impenetrable jive. You can't get there from here.

You want some "theory" based on the big "NO", you say... but you are dragging around so much baggage, you've got no room for it. You're the guy that goes away for the weekend with 9 suitcases, golf clubs, a gym bag....

Just fuckin stop. You are now from Mars. Or, you are Pisarev looking at a beehive. Take a close look at America and what do you really see? It's not a "plot" and it is not a play "designed" to hide anything. There is no design. It's fucking bees. Start by describing it, and foremost, the social structure: who works, who eats, who drones, how does it "work"?

We're gonna be Nihilists, remember? Then, trust nothing but what you see, as coldly and as materialistically as you can manage. The last thing we care about is what the bees "think" or believe... even though most bees think deeper thoughts than a lot of "Democrats" we both know...

Of course I asked for it, that's the reason for the post. Do I ever complain? You know I dont.

I have baggage but I don't play golf. I agree that the "we" etc. should go, although "citizen" has a certain appeal.

Just fuckin stop. I thought you liked this the first time around. Stop what? Wrapping the argument in "the people" etc. Not a bad idea. As far a conspiracies, I don't say there's an organized plot anymore than I did in this "Teardown", I said it makes sense that people who "get some" aim to keep it and a logical result of that is that they form their own guild, with rules and so forth, to hold on to power. The way that they do that is of interest because, they're bees too. In fact, I'm thinking that there's no Queen at all, never was one; it's a myth to justify the Drones existence and superior status. That myth is what drives behavior, even if it's after the fact rationalization.

I agree on the last point but I've got a ways to go on the not caring about what us bees think and believe. More work to do....

...or maybe I'm a cynic (but a fun kind of cynic) in the way that I look at things. But if that's the case, maybe it's just self indulgent amusement of me and those few who bother to read what I write. More thought. Thanks!

Thanks to Mike the Kid too. I'm never this self reflective in public (in private is another matter). More work before we all disappear (ironically, the bees who are surviving the best are either in 'corporate hives' or 'organic settings).

Anaxarchos said:

OK, you asked for it...

Forget about "we", "us", "our", "citizens", "civilized people", "Americans", and all the rest of that impenetrable jive. You can't get there from here.

You want some "theory" based on the big "NO", you say... but you are dragging around so much baggage, you've got no room for it. You're the guy that goes away for the weekend with 9 suitcases, golf clubs, a gym bag....

Just fuckin stop. You are now from Mars. Or, you are Pisarev looking at a beehive. Take a close look at America and what do you really see? It's not a "plot" and it is not a play "designed" to hide anything. There is no design. It's fucking bees. Start by describing it, and foremost, the social structure: who works, who eats, who drones, how does it "work"?

We're gonna be Nihilists, remember? Then, trust nothing but what you see, as coldly and as materialistically as you can manage. The last thing we care about is what the bees "think" or believe... even though most bees think deeper thoughts than a lot of "Democrats" we both know...

Of course I asked for it, that's the reason for the post. Do I ever complain? You know I dont.

I have baggage but I don't play golf. I agree that the "we" etc. should go, although "citizen" has a certain appeal.

Just fuckin stop. I thought you liked this the first time around. Stop what? Wrapping the argument in "the people" etc. Not a bad idea. As far a conspiracies, I don't say there's an organized plot anymore than I did in this "Teardown", I said it makes sense that people who "get some" aim to keep it and a logical result of that is that they form their own guild, with rules and so forth, to hold on to power. The way that they do that is of interest because, they're bees too. In fact, I'm thinking that there's no Queen at all, never was one; it's a myth to justify the Drones existence and superior status. That myth is what drives behavior, even if it's after the fact rationalization.

I agree on the last point but I've got a ways to go on the not caring about what us bees think and believe. More work to do....

...or maybe I'm a cynic (but a fun kind of cynic) in the way that I look at things. But if that's the case, maybe it's just self indulgent amusement of me and those few who bother to read what I write. More thought. Thanks!

Thanks to Mike the Kid too. I'm never this self reflective in public (in private is another matter). More work before we all disappear (ironically, the bees who are surviving the best are either in 'corporate hives' or 'organic settings).

That's citoyen Anaxarchos. At least, citoyen implies:

http://www.businessinnovationinsider.com/French%20Revolution%202.jpg
http://www.flholocaustmuseum.org/history_wing/assets/room1/fall_of_the_bastille.jpg
http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~tjmoore/imagesofrome/18thcentury/oath.jpg
http://faculty.fullerton.edu/nfitch/history110b/rep132.jpg

"Citizen" somehow hits me as a visit to the Registrar of Deeds and a recitation of some epic poem on "timeless values"....


.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/autorank/devo.jpg

A special gift to each of you. When I look at this the 'timeless' chords of "We are the world" come to mind."
I'll never use timeless again, although these guys are some cool bees.

As for citizens, this guy was one...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/autorank/debs.jpg
Citizen with a crowd

Kid said:

I think this doesn't exactly qualify because even though it says "blow up the system" it reads more like "throw out this bloated corrupt system and replace it with a strikingly similar but slimmed down and more equitable system". Especially as it aims to keep on all the Congress cronies.

Kid, you're right and I resent you for it;) (except for your last sentence about 'cronies'). But that's OK. In the last paragraph, I say basically that. I'm of the view that while the execution and acceptance of the basic ideas of this country were far from perfect, the ideas themselves are timeless and of great value. Anax is giving me some shit about this too. I have to think about it more. Obviously, to me anyway, I should have mentioned the larger tradition of seeing where the system went wrong in the past, as wel as the present turmoil. Leaving that out belies the damage done from the consistent pattern of lies and self serving deception.

Food for thought thanks!

Dude, somewhere along the line Anax's brain up and decided to grow a third lobe. Sorta like the way most of us add on to our mobile homes (from a double wide to a triple-wide for instance). So don't sweat catching shit from him, he's not normal ;)

Honestly, I don't quite get his "Autorank thinks everything is a plot" thing. Mainly because I've hung out with the REAL kooks who think the NWO is spying on them using psychics a la Minority Report, beaming propaganda into their brains using suppresessed Tesla techonology, in cahoots with space alines hellbent on conquering humanity, etc etc

Devo? Your gift to us is Devo? Instead I give you Bevo

http://bealonghorn.utexas.edu/whyut/photos/images/bevo.jpg

"Citizen" somehow hits me as a visit to the Registrar of Deeds and a recitation of some epic poem on "timeless values"....

You've been "on" recently :) I haven't seen you this pithy since that time you called me Paris Hilton.

And the only "timeless value" is pussy.

EDIT: blame it on autorank saying he wants to "get some" over and over

And the only "timeless value" is pussy.

As soon as the women are out of the room, kid reverts back to his old ways. :lol:

And the only "timeless value" is pussy.

As soon as the women are out of the room, kid reverts back to his old ways. :lol:

What can I say?

I prefer mini-blinds to meat curtains.

And the only "timeless value" is pussy.

As soon as the women are out of the room, kid reverts back to his old ways. :lol:

I have a quota

And the only "timeless value" is pussy.

As soon as the women are out of the room, kid reverts back to his old ways. :lol:

What can I say?

I prefer mini-blinds to meat curtains.

Wow, thats the comment that cleared the room..

And the only "timeless value" is pussy.

As soon as the women are out of the room, kid reverts back to his old ways. :lol:

What can I say?

I prefer mini-blinds to meat curtains.

Wow, thats the comment that cleared the room..

Don't get me started. I'm still huffy with Pisarev over his disgust at the unmentionable perversion of those Athenians...

...reminds me of the county fair, although our Beavo's didn't have horns like that.

I see logic and get called a conspiracy guy but Anax gets PM's from me too, which he can't quote, so you never know;)

NWO, Illuminati, etc. Nah, it's bad enough, actually worse, to see the machinations so carelessly played out, over an dover. Conspiracy is just two or more coming to gather to worship in this way, i.e., steal and exploit. at the expense of others.

Ever see "The Third Man" - it's about as accurate as you can get. And Harry being a charmer was the perfect touch.

...reminds me of the county fair, although our Beavo's didn't have horns like that.

I see logic and get called a conspiracy guy but Anax gets PM's from me too, which he can't quote, so you never know;)

NWO, Illuminati, etc. Nah, it's bad enough, actually worse, to see the machinations so carelessly played out, over an dover. Conspiracy is just two or more coming to gather to worship in this way, i.e., steal and exploit. at the expense of others.

Ever see "The Third Man" - it's about as accurate as you can get. And Harry being a charmer was the perfect touch.

The Third Man id from like 1950 with Orson Welles in it? Nope, I've never seen it..I mean, I think the only thing I've ever seen in black and white was Schindler's List :) Damn you must be old ;)

Yeah, I was thinking Mike might put a point on this by talking about how the reality is even worse than the bizarre fantasies people conjure up. I'll be honest, I used to buy into alot of that stuff..I mean, there is a LOT of skulking in the shadows going on. I see Anax's point though, that this is all a natural extension of conditions that are in place (I would use the word 'hierarchical' but he says thats middle-class confusion..I thought being bi-curious was middle class confusion, but whatever..how about hegemony?)

And, even if you are at a Chomsky level of denial of conspiracy, there is alot of important work in tracing back the "begats" so to speak. The death of Falwell has brought the Moonies into the forefront (for a few conspiracy minded folks anyway)

Oh, one quick question for autorank. Are you Michael Collins? I had the impression that you weren't but now I'm not sure..

I think your articles are important to get out there, even if the ulimate cynic in all of could just quip "what's the point in writing an expose, its just business as usual". I was looking through the PI archives for something yesterday and I came across a post from you about working for a candidate in Virginia. I forget who it was now but he won - Tim Kaine? Sorry, if thats the wrong guy, I'm not up on political figures much. Anyway, I think that was the thread Anax and DB Cooper had a go at each other in. Those guys are the brains and we're just the mensch. Or actually, you're part of the brains too, and I'm the mook :)

I absolutely dare you to go to a TX game and ask "Is he served with fries" :)

...reminds me of the county fair, although our Beavo's didn't have horns like that.

I see logic and get called a conspiracy guy but Anax gets PM's from me too, which he can't quote, so you never know;)

NWO, Illuminati, etc. Nah, it's bad enough, actually worse, to see the machinations so carelessly played out, over an dover. Conspiracy is just two or more coming to gather to worship in this way, i.e., steal and exploit. at the expense of others.

Ever see "The Third Man" - it's about as accurate as you can get. And Harry being a charmer was the perfect touch.

The Third Man id from like 1950 with Orson Welles in it? Nope, I've never seen it..I mean, I think the only thing I've ever seen in black and white was Schindler's List :) Damn you must be old ;)

Yeah, I was thinking Mike might put a point on this by talking about how the reality is even worse than the bizarre fantasies people conjure up. I'll be honest, I used to buy into alot of that stuff..I mean, there is a LOT of skulking in the shadows going on. I see Anax's point though, that this is all a natural extension of conditions that are in place (I would use the word 'hierarchical' but he says thats middle-class confusion..I thought being bi-curious was middle class confusion, but whatever..how about hegemony?)

And, even if you are at a Chomsky level of denial of conspiracy, there is alot of important work in tracing back the "begats" so to speak. The death of Falwell has brought the Moonies into the forefront (for a few conspiracy minded folks anyway)

Oh, one quick question for autorank. Are you Michael Collins? I had the impression that you weren't but now I'm not sure..

I think your articles are important to get out there, even if the ulimate cynic in all of could just quip "what's the point in writing an expose, its just business as usual". I was looking through the PI archives for something yesterday and I came across a post from you about working for a candidate in Virginia. I forget who it was now but he won - Tim Kaine? Sorry, if thats the wrong guy, I'm not up on political figures much. Anyway, I think that was the thread Anax and DB Cooper had a go at each other in. Those guys are the brains and we're just the mensch. Or actually, you're part of the brains too, and I'm the mook :)

I absolutely dare you to go to a TX game and ask "Is he served with fries" :)

http://www.progressiveindependent.com/d ... c_id=11854 (http://www.progressiveindependent.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=11854)

I lost money (a bet) on that exchange.

An old friend had googled something about election fraud and "felony disenfranchisement" and come across something I had written on DU. He recognized my "style", googled my screen name and picked me up on PI and a few other places. He e-mailed me.

"Hey, that's you...."

"Well, er, um, yeah it is..."

"What are you doin?"

"Well, er, um, learnin' about the Internets?"

"Stop... You'll hurt those people..."

"Will not! I've turned over a new leaf. I will NOT hurt them... I will be patient and caring and sensitive and..."

"I'll betcha..."

So I warned DB about 9 times but he didn't get it...

What can you do?

.

...reminds me of the county fair, although our Beavo's didn't have horns like that.

I see logic and get called a conspiracy guy but Anax gets PM's from me too, which he can't quote, so you never know;)

NWO, Illuminati, etc. Nah, it's bad enough, actually worse, to see the machinations so carelessly played out, over an dover. Conspiracy is just two or more coming to gather to worship in this way, i.e., steal and exploit. at the expense of others.

Ever see "The Third Man" - it's about as accurate as you can get. And Harry being a charmer was the perfect touch.

The Third Man id from like 1950 with Orson Welles in it? Nope, I've never seen it..I mean, I think the only thing I've ever seen in black and white was Schindler's List :) Damn you must be old ;)

Yeah, I was thinking Mike might put a point on this by talking about how the reality is even worse than the bizarre fantasies people conjure up. I'll be honest, I used to buy into alot of that stuff..I mean, there is a LOT of skulking in the shadows going on. I see Anax's point though, that this is all a natural extension of conditions that are in place (I would use the word 'hierarchical' but he says thats middle-class confusion..I thought being bi-curious was middle class confusion, but whatever..how about hegemony?)

And, even if you are at a Chomsky level of denial of conspiracy, there is alot of important work in tracing back the "begats" so to speak. The death of Falwell has brought the Moonies into the forefront (for a few conspiracy minded folks anyway)

Oh, one quick question for autorank. Are you Michael Collins? I had the impression that you weren't but now I'm not sure..

I think your articles are important to get out there, even if the ulimate cynic in all of could just quip "what's the point in writing an expose, its just business as usual". I was looking through the PI archives for something yesterday and I came across a post from you about working for a candidate in Virginia. I forget who it was now but he won - Tim Kaine? Sorry, if thats the wrong guy, I'm not up on political figures much. Anyway, I think that was the thread Anax and DB Cooper had a go at each other in. Those guys are the brains and we're just the mensch. Or actually, you're part of the brains too, and I'm the mook :)

I absolutely dare you to go to a TX game and ask "Is he served with fries" :)

http://www.progressiveindependent.com/d ... c_id=11854 (http://www.progressiveindependent.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=11854)

I lost money (a bet) on that exchange.

An old friend had googled something about election fraud and "felony disenfranchisement" and come across something I had written on DU. He recognized my "style", googled my screen name and picked me up on PI and a few other places. He e-mailed me.

"Hey, that's you...."

"Well, er, um, yeah it is..."

"What are you doin?"

"Well, er, um, learnin' about the Internets?"

"Stop... You'll hurt those people..."

"Will not! I've turned over a new leaf. I will NOT hurt them... I will be patient and caring and sensitive and..."

"I'll betcha..."

So I warned DB about 9 times but he didn't get it...

What can you do?

.

Oh man if somebody was going to cost you money on that I wish it'd been me :D

Oh man if somebody was going to cost you money on that I wish it'd been me :D

You said the magic woid; you didn't get the boid...

http://www.lucyfan.com/groucho.jpg

H-E-G-E-L

Oh man if somebody was going to cost you money on that I wish it'd been me :D

You said the magic woid; you didn't get the boid...

http://www.lucyfan.com/groucho.jpg

H-E-G-E-L

More pleez

that whole conjecture thing, while the source of my opening epiphany, remains a bit of a mystery

try again

so I can walk away with a quotable, restatanble understanding

thx

.

Oh man if somebody was going to cost you money on that I wish it'd been me :D

You said the magic woid; you didn't get the boid...

http://www.lucyfan.com/groucho.jpg

H-E-G-E-L

More pleez

that whole conjecture thing, while the source of my opening epiphany, remains a bit of a mystery

try again

so I can walk away with a quotable, restatanble understanding

thx

.

Here, this is the "long" form..of the preface anyway.

http://www.marxist.com/Theory/study_guide1.html

Tell Anax you want to hear it straight from the source..either he'll wig out or we'll see just what your limits are in terms of learning to love "difficult" writing styles

EDIT: but actually all you need to know is Hegelian Dialectic = thesis-antithesis-synthesis - its all a plot don'tcha know. You create both sides then swoop in with the "solution" oh yeah

(and lest anax change his mind about giving me the boid, that was a joke ;) )

Here, this is the "long" form..of the preface anyway.

http://www.marxist.com/Theory/study_guide1.html

Tell Anax you want to hear it straight from the source..either he'll wig out or we'll see just what your limits are in terms of learning to love "difficult" writing styles

You do want it from the "source", and the source isn't Rob Sewell. If ya wanna try Hegel & Marx, please do. I can't really do either one of them justice. The subject that PPLE brought up is particularly complicated because most Marxists don't read Philosophy of History (because it is not particularly "left-wing")

I have to rework the Dolcinites piece because it doesn't stand alone. It was interwoven with a debate and several discrete questions on a thread. It's number three on my list of promised but long delayed debts, behind Pisarev and something I owe Collins/rank. If I don't deliver on the last, he will keep reading "timeless", sentimental poetry at me...

.

Here, this is the "long" form..of the preface anyway.

http://www.marxist.com/Theory/study_guide1.html

Tell Anax you want to hear it straight from the source..either he'll wig out or we'll see just what your limits are in terms of learning to love "difficult" writing styles

You do want it from the "source", and the source isn't Rob Sewell. If ya wanna try Hegel & Marx, please do. I can't really do either one of them justice. The subject that PPLE brought up is particularly complicated because most Marxists don't read Philosophy of History (because it is not particularly "left-wing")

I have to rework the Dolcinites piece because it doesn't stand alone. It was interwoven with a debate and several discrete questions on a thread. It's number three on my list of promised but long delayed debts, behind Pisarev and something I owe Collins/rank. If I don't deliver on the last, he will keep reading "timeless", sentimental poetry at me...

.

No, there are excerpts from Trotsky, Engels and Lenin at that link, you just have to scroll down.

[quote="Kid Of The Black Hole":1y4397d6]
Here, this is the "long" form..of the preface anyway.

http://www.marxist.com/Theory/study_guide1.html

Tell Anax you want to hear it straight from the source..either he'll wig out or we'll see just what your limits are in terms of learning to love "difficult" writing styles

You do want it from the "source", and the source isn't Rob Sewell. If ya wanna try Hegel & Marx, please do. I can't really do either one of them justice. The subject that PPLE brought up is particularly complicated because most Marxists don't read Philosophy of History (because it is not particularly "left-wing")

I have to rework the Dolcinites piece because it doesn't stand alone. It was interwoven with a debate and several discrete questions on a thread. It's number three on my list of promised but long delayed debts, behind Pisarev and something I owe Collins/rank. If I don't deliver on the last, he will keep reading "timeless", sentimental poetry at me...

.

No, there are excerpts from Trotsky, Engels and Lenin at that link, you just have to scroll down.[/quote:1y4397d6]

Trotsky? Bah humbug. He's the guy you want if you need to give speeches and organize the Red Army.

Otherwise, not so much.

.

""Will not! I've turned over a new leaf. I will NOT hurt them... I will be patient and caring and sensitive and..."

Oh, that's for sure. Tres charmant!

Kid, I won't ask it about Beavo but I'll ask you, "You come with fries;)"???

It would appear that I'm one and the same with that Collins guy. Actually, there's a Cincy Post Reporter by the same name. Not bad, not good, just hangin' in the 'hood (if he's lucky).

Old, please, I worked in the internet in the '80's when you had to walk five miles uphill in the snow just to get to a connection. Then five miles up again to log off.

But now, Mr. Harry Lime
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/autorank/harrylime.jpg
Lime sells bad antibiotics in post war Vienna.

HARRY
...of human beings. Governments
don't, so why should we? They talk
about the people, and the
Proletariat... I talk about the
suckers and the mugs...
(walks away upstage
to M.C.S. at window)
It's the same thing. They have
their five-year plan, and so have I.

CLOSE SHOT - MARTINS

seated, looking off R - the window behind him.

MARTINS
You used to believe in God.

CLOSE SHOT - HARRY

at window, looking back over his shoulder off L for Martins.

HARRY
I still do believe in God, old
man... I believe in God and Mercy
and all that... The dead are
happier dead. They don't miss much
here...
http://www.dailyscript.com/scripts/the_third_man.htm

[quote="Kid Of The Black Hole":25f0xme7]
Here, this is the "long" form..of the preface anyway.

http://www.marxist.com/Theory/study_guide1.html

Tell Anax you want to hear it straight from the source..either he'll wig out or we'll see just what your limits are in terms of learning to love "difficult" writing styles

You do want it from the "source", and the source isn't Rob Sewell. If ya wanna try Hegel & Marx, please do. I can't really do either one of them justice. The subject that PPLE brought up is particularly complicated because most Marxists don't read Philosophy of History (because it is not particularly "left-wing")

I have to rework the Dolcinites piece because it doesn't stand alone. It was interwoven with a debate and several discrete questions on a thread. It's number three on my list of promised but long delayed debts, behind Pisarev and something I owe Collins/rank. If I don't deliver on the last, he will keep reading "timeless", sentimental poetry at me...

.

No, there are excerpts from Trotsky, Engels and Lenin at that link, you just have to scroll down.

Trotsky? Bah humbug. He's the guy you want if you need to give speeches and organize the Red Army.

Otherwise, not so much.

.[/quote:25f0xme7]


Haha Mr Rodney King Solidarity Guy..I thought you said it was time to mend those rifts or something like that..

What was that chant again? None of your Trot bullshit! None of your Trot bullshit!


Kid, I won't ask it about Beavo but I'll ask you, "You come with fries;)"???

Thats the worst pick up line I've ever heard..although I have to admit to being a bit flattered..anyway, at your advanced age you might want to ask for metamucil not french fries

I've been at an advanced age since I was six, at least as I saw it. Can't bait me on that one.

You mentioned an obscure fact that made me laugh, upon reflection. There was indeed a thread I ran at the other place about a candidate I worked for, Tim Kaine. He was running to suceed Mark Warner as Governor of Virgnia. Kaine is a decent human being who is far to centrist for my taste, although I had no trouble voting for him in this state, the Republican alternatives are generally awful. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/autorank/pat.jpg
In this campaign, Kaine was oppose by a Pat Robertson/Regent University hand picked candidate who was far to the right of Bush. I decided that if the Republican won, I'd have to move out of the state. In my next feat of logic I decided that I really had to work to stop this slate of candidates, particularly the Republican candidate for governor. So I did.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/autorank/Inauguration2006087.jpgGot invited to the Inauguration, which was in Williamsburg, VA, the Colonial theme park, took some pictures and posted them. I was the object of some attacks - how could I work for Kaine, blablabla, he's "DLC" etc.

It was useful criticism because I had to justify working for someone who deviate from "progressive" dogma against someone who I saw as a true menace. To me it makes perfect sense. It's the question grouops face that need everything they can get in terms of support. Do they ally with groups that really don't fit their agenca against monsters, e.g., Franco? Of course you do, stop the worst elements and then deal with the rest. Gandhi made that choice when he called off the fight for independence while the British faought Hitler. That was a brilliant decsion at the time and also in retrospect.

Here's another demo, January 6, 2005, DC, protesting the certification of Presidential electors from Ohio and every state, Capitol Hill, next to the Senate.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/autorank/Picture192.jpg

I've been at an advanced age since I was six, at least as I saw it. Can't bait me on that one.

You mentioned an obscure fact that made me laugh, upon reflection. There was indeed a thread I ran at the other place about a candidate I worked for, Tim Kaine. He was running to suceed Mark Warner as Governor of Virgnia. Kaine is a decent human being who is far to centrist for my taste, although I had no trouble voting for him in this state, the Republican alternatives are generally awful. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/autorank/pat.jpg
In this campaign, Kaine was oppose by a Pat Robertson/Regent University hand picked candidate who was far to the right of Bush. I decided that if the Republican won, I'd have to move out of the state. In my next feat of logic I decided that I really had to work to stop this slate of candidates, particularly the Republican candidate for governor. So I did.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/autorank/Inauguration2006087.jpgGot invited to the Inauguration, which was in Williamsburg, VA, the Colonial theme park, took some pictures and posted them. I was the object of some attacks - how could I work for Kaine, blablabla, he's "DLC" etc.

It was useful criticism because I had to justify working for someone who deviate from "progressive" dogma against someone who I saw as a true menace. To me it makes perfect sense. It's the question grouops face that need everything they can get in terms of support. Do they ally with groups that really don't fit their agenca against monsters, e.g., Franco? Of course you do, stop the worst elements and then deal with the rest. Gandhi made that choice when he called off the fight for independence while the British faought Hitler. That was a brilliant decsion at the time and also in retrospect.

Here's another demo, January 6, 2005, DC, protesting the certification of Presidential electors from Ohio and every state, Capitol Hill, next to the Senate.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/autorank/Picture192.jpg

Ha, it sucks doesn't it? Advanced age, I mean? You spend alot of your formative years identifying more with adults around you than your peers then you come to realize that adults are mostly assholes. No where to turn..I was reading some conspiracy-lite stuff about how "education is slavery" today..our education system stems from the Prussian model..training in corporate serfdom..

Anyway, I want to agree with that, but maybe thats my "Its a plot!" side showing through. I wonder if Chlamor could help me develop this idea..the concept of "dispensing" knowledge seems like a case study in how the very terminology we use is subtle indoctrination.

This bears on what you're talking about because the idea of "advancing" - such as a political agenda - kind of involves the art of tactics and tactical desicion-making. Something that is entirely lost on most of "the left". Have you seen what passes for "analysis" out there. Tripes prophet on earth - called Will Pitt?

The surest way to know we're not living in The Matrix is the simple reckoning that it wouldn't be this surreal.

Incidentally, it looks like progressives are in "revolt" today. Somehow they missed the last 6 years of "giving George Bush everything he wants" and are now aghast that Democrats are "giving George Bush everything he wants". Kwai Chang Caine had the diagnosis all along: "you lack focus, grasshoppa". Or was that Mr Miyagi..