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View Full Version : Majority of Eastern Germans Feel Life Better under Communism (Der Spiegel)



anaxarchos
07-04-2009, 01:04 AM
Quotes from the Der Spiegel article:

Today, 20 years after the fall of the Berlin Wall, 57 percent, or an absolute majority, of eastern Germans defend the former East Germany. "The GDR had more good sides than bad sides. There were some problems, but life was good there," say 49 percent of those polled. Eight percent of eastern Germans flatly oppose all criticism of their former home and agree with the statement: "The GDR had, for the most part, good sides. Life there was happier and better than in reunified Germany today."

****

"Not even half of young people in eastern Germany describe the GDR as a dictatorship, and a majority believe the Stasi was a normal intelligence service,"Most East German citizens had a nice life," he says. "I certainly don't think that it's better here." By "here," he means reunified Germany, which he subjects to questionable comparisons.

****

In Birger's opinion, there is no fundamental difference between dictatorship and freedom. "The people who live on the poverty line today also lack the freedom to travel."

****

"You can't say that the GDR was an illegitimate state, and that everything is fine today."

****

"From today's perspective, I believe that we were driven out of paradise when the Wall came down," one person writes, and a 38-year-old man "thanks God" that he was able to experience living in the GDR, noting that it wasn't until after German reunification that he witnessed people who feared for their existence, beggars and homeless people.

****

"As far as I'm concerned, what we had in those days was less of a dictatorship than what we have today." He wants to see equal wages and equal pensions for residents of the former East Germany. And when Schön starts to complain about unified Germany, his voice contains an element of self-satisfaction. People lie and cheat everywhere today, he says, and today's injustices are simply perpetrated in a more cunning way than in the GDR, where starvation wages and slashed car tires were unheard of.

****

What makes him particularly dissatisfied is "the false picture of the East that the West is painting today." The GDR, he says, was "not an unjust state," but "my home, where my achievements were recognized."

****

"Those who worked hard were also able to do well for themselves in the GDR." This, he says, is one of the truths that are persistently denied on talk shows, when western Germans act "as if eastern Germans were all a little stupid and should still be falling to their knees today in gratitude for reunification." What exactly is there to celebrate, Schön asks himself?

****

"In the public's perception, there are only victims and perpetrators. But the masses fall by the wayside."

****

Today's Germany is described as a "slave state" and a "dictatorship of capital," and some letter writers reject Germany for being, in their opinion, too capitalist or dictatorial, and certainly not democratic. Schroeder finds such statements alarming. "I am afraid that a majority of eastern Germans do not identify with the current sociopolitical system."

********



Spiegel is the most important weekly magazine in Europe. It is anything but left leaning. In fact, its editorial position ranges from neoconservative to Thatcherist. Willy Brandt once famously nicknamed it "Scheißblatt" (the "shitsheet"). The name stuck, even to today.

How then do we account for this article? It arises from a poll that has caused an earthquake in Germany. Two thirds of the "liberated" East Germans, twenty years after the fact and despite decades of expose and propoganda still think that life in the former German Democratic Republic (the GDR) was better. In fact, Spiegel understates the story. The poll reported that more than three quarters of East Germans reported that life was "as good" if not better... and this despite the obvious "consumer wealth" of the West.

The "back story" to this poll is that most Western Germans believe that Germany has gone into debt for 50 years to "rebuild and reintegrate" the East. Why... those ungrateful swine! Of course, Spiegel does its best to undermine the story, giving equal weight to pop psychology and a few flack "political scientists" with typically lame "explanations". It is the American media treatment, complete with its air of infinite superiority. But, the real story still comes through.

I spent some time in the GDR, 30 years ago, when virtually no Americans visited the country. My wife and I were completely on our own and saw a very great deal of the real place. Like those interviewed by Spiegel, I very rarely talk about it. It was the exact opposite of every image and story that comes to the U.S. Where does one begin? How does one say anything without sounding like a complete hack?

Germany never chose "Socialism". Virtually every Socialist and Communist was murdered during the course of the war. Still, the GDR was Socialist as a result of that war and it was a "heavy handed" socialism meant to prevent a reunification of Germany (and the revival of the "German threat") for all time.

Even so, Germany had a very high cultural and economic level and the "problems of Socialist reconstruction" did not immediately run into malnutrition and literacy and infant mortality. The GDR was the closest thing to a "developed country" under Socialism. The result was the oddest thing I have ever seen.

I have never liked German culture. Yet, I have never thought of the GDR as "German". It was the most relaxed, soft, literate, easy, and "open" place that I have ever been... and this, amongst the descendents of the "Prussian militarists" who transformed Europe. The GDR was the closest thing to "Socialism in the West" and the result was suprising, even for me.

I have been to Germany many times since reunification and have often met Germans from the East. I will mention in passing that I spent time there in the 70's and they will ALWAYS look me up afterwards... when we are alone. Over coffee or a beer, always the same conversation in hushed tones:

"Wasn't that something... it was really something. I can't talk to anyone about it. They just don't know. They just can't understand..."


http://farm1.static.flickr.com/58/176441932_c4f4b270da.jpg?v=0

HOMESICK FOR A DICTATORSHIP
Majority of Eastern Germans Feel Life Better under Communism

By Julia Bonstein
[i]Translated from the German by Christopher Sultan.[ii]
Spiegel 07/03/2009
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,634122,00.html


Part 1: Majority of Eastern Germans Feel Life Better under Communism

The life of Birger, a native of the state of Mecklenburg-West Pomerania in northeastern Germany, could read as an all-German success story. The Berlin Wall came down when he was 10. After graduating from high school, he studied economics and business administration in Hamburg, lived in India and South Africa, and eventually got a job with a company in the western German city of Duisburg. Today Birger, 30, is planning a sailing trip in the Mediterranean. He isn't using his real name

for this story, because he doesn't want it to be associated with the former East Germany, which he sees as "a label with negative connotations."

And yet Birger is sitting in a Hamburg cafe, defending the former communist country. "Most East German citizens had a nice life," he says. "I certainly don't think that it's better here." By "here," he means reunified Germany, which he subjects to questionable comparisons. "In the past there was the Stasi, and today (German Interior Minister Wolfgang) Schäuble -- or the GEZ (the fee collection center of Germany's public broadcasting institutions) -- are collecting information about us." In Birger's opinion, there is no fundamental difference between dictatorship and freedom. "The people who live on the poverty line today also lack the freedom to travel."

Birger is by no means an uneducated young man. He is aware of the spying and repression that went on in the former East Germany, and, as he says, it was "not a good thing that people couldn't leave the country and many were oppressed." He is no fan of what he characterizes as contemptible nostalgia for the former East Germany. "I haven't erected a shrine to Spreewald pickles in my house," he says, referring to a snack that was part of a the East German identity. Nevertheless, he is quick to argue with those who would criticize the place his parents called home: "You can't say that the GDR was an illegitimate state, and that everything is fine today."

As an apologist for the former East German dictatorship, the young Mecklenburg native shares a majority view of people from eastern Germany. Today, 20 years after the fall of the Berlin Wall, 57 percent, or an absolute majority, of eastern Germans defend the former East Germany. "The GDR had more good sides than bad sides. There were some problems, but life was good there," say 49 percent of those polled. Eight percent of eastern Germans flatly oppose all criticism of their former home and agree with the statement: "The GDR had, for the most part, good sides. Life there was happier and better than in reunified Germany today."

These poll results, released last Friday in Berlin, reveal that glorification of the former East Germany has reached the center of society. Today, it is no longer merely the eternally nostalgic who mourn the loss of the GDR. "A new form of Ostalgie (nostalgia for the former GDR) has taken shape," says historian Stefan Wolle. "The yearning for the ideal world of the dictatorship goes well beyond former government officials." Even young people who had almost no experiences with the GDR are idealizing it today. "The value of their own history is at stake," says Wolle.

People are whitewashing the dictatorship, as if reproaching the state meant calling their own past into question. "Many eastern Germans perceive all criticism of the system as a personal attack," says political scientist Klaus Schroeder, 59, director of an institute at Berlin's Free University that studies the former communist state. He warns against efforts to downplay the SED dictatorship by young people whose knowledge about the GDR is derived mainly from family conversations, and not as much from what they have learned in school. "Not even half of young people in eastern Germany describe the GDR as a dictatorship, and a majority believe the Stasi was a normal intelligence service," Schroeder concluded in a 2008 study of school students. "These young people cannot, and in fact have no desire to, recognize the dark sides of the GDR."

"Driven Out of Paradise"

Schroeder has made enemies with statements like these. He received more than 4,000 letters, some of them furious, in reaction to reporting on his study. The 30-year-old Birger also sent an e-mail to Schroeder. The political scientist has now compiled a selection of typical letters to document the climate of opinion in which the GDR and unified Germany are discussed in eastern Germany. Some of the material gives a shocking insight into the thoughts of disappointed and angry citizens. "From today's perspective, I believe that we were driven out of paradise when the Wall came down," one person writes, and a 38-year-old man "thanks God" that he was able to experience living in the GDR, noting that it wasn't until after German reunification that he witnessed people who feared for their existence, beggars and homeless people.

Today's Germany is described as a "slave state" and a "dictatorship of capital," and some letter writers reject Germany for being, in their opinion, too capitalist or dictatorial, and certainly not democratic. Schroeder finds such statements alarming. "I am afraid that a majority of eastern Germans do not identify with the current sociopolitical system."

Many of the letter writers are either people who did not benefit from German reunification or those who prefer to live in the past. But they also include people like Thorsten Schön.

After 1989 Schön, a master craftsman from Stralsund, a city on the Baltic Sea, initially racked up one success after the next. Although he no longer owns the Porsche he bought after reunification, the lion skin rug he bought on a vacation trip to South Africa -- one of many overseas trips he has made in the past 20 years -- is still lying on his living room floor. "There's no doubt it: I've been fortunate," says the 51-year-old today. A major contract he scored during the period following reunification made it easier for Schön to start his own business. Today he has a clear view of the Strelasund sound from the window of his terraced house.

Part 2: 'People Lie and Cheat Everywhere Today'

Wall decorations from Bali decorate his living room, and a miniature version of the Statue of Liberty stands next to the DVD player. All the same, Schön sits on his sofa and rhapsodizes about the good old days in East Germany. "In the past, a campground was a place where people enjoyed their freedom together," he says. What he misses most today is "that feeling of companionship and solidarity." The economy of scarcity, complete with barter transactions, was "more like a hobby." Does he have a Stasi file? "I'm not interested in that," says Schön. "Besides, it would be too disappointing."

His verdict on the GDR is clear: "As far as I'm concerned, what we had in those days was less of a dictatorship than what we have today." He wants to see equal wages and equal pensions for residents of the former East Germany. And when Schön starts to complain about unified Germany, his voice contains an element of self-satisfaction. People lie and cheat everywhere today, he says, and today's injustices are simply perpetrated in a more cunning way than in the GDR, where starvation wages and slashed car tires were unheard of. Schön cannot offer any accounts of his own bad experiences in present-day Germany. "I'm better off today than I was before," he says, "but I am not more satisfied."

Schön's reasoning is less about cool logic than it is about settling scores. What makes him particularly dissatisfied is "the false picture of the East that the West is painting today." The GDR, he says, was "not an unjust state," but "my home, where my achievements were recognized." Schön doggedly repeats the story of how it took him years of hard work before starting his own business in 1989 -- before reunification, he is quick to add. "Those who worked hard were also able to do well for themselves in the GDR." This, he says, is one of the truths that are persistently denied on talk shows, when western Germans act "as if eastern Germans we

re all a little stupid and should still be falling to their knees today in gratitude for reunification." What exactly is there to celebrate, Schön asks himself?

"Rose-tinted memories are stronger than the statistics about people trying to escape and applications for exit visas, and even stronger than the files about killings at the Wall and unjust political sentences," says historian Wolle.

These are memories of people whose families were not persecuted and victimized in East Germany, of people like 30-year-old Birger, who says today: "If reunification hadn't happened, I would also have had a good life."

Life as a GDR Citizen

After completing his university degree, he says, he would undoubtedly have accepted a "management position in some business enterprise," perhaps not unlike his father, who was the chairman of a farmers' collective. "The GDR played no role in the life of a GDR citizen," Birger concludes. This view is shared by his friends, all of them college-educated children of the former East Germany who were born in 1978. "Reunification or not," the group of friends recently concluded, it really makes no difference to them. Without reunification, their travel destinations simply would have been Moscow and Prague, instead of London and Brussels. And the friend who is a government official in Mecklenburg today would probably have been a loyal party official in the GDR.

The young man expresses his views levelheadedly and with few words, although he looks slightly defiant at times, like when he says: "I know, what I'm telling you isn't all that interesting. The stories of victims are easier to tell."

Birger doesn't usually mention his origins. In Duisburg, where he works, hardly anyone knows that he is originally from East Germany. But on this afternoon, Birger is adamant about contradicting the "victors' writing of history." "In the public's perception, there are only victims and perpetrators. But the masses fall by the wayside."

This is someone who feels personally affected when Stasi terror and repression are mentioned. He is an academic who knows "that one cannot sanction the killings at the Berlin Wall." However, when it comes to the border guards' orders to shoot would-be escapees, he says: "If there is a big sign there, you shouldn't go there. It was completely negligent."

This brings up an old question once again: Did a real life exist in the midst of a sham? Downplaying the dictatorship is seen as the price people pay to preserve their self-respect. "People are defending their own lives," writes political scientist Schroeder, describing the tragedy of a divided country.

Kid of the Black Hole
07-04-2009, 08:59 AM
I read once that more people try to cross from Mexico to the United States "illegally" every YEAR than tried to cross the wall in it entire 35-ish year existence.

I actually thought the stat I saw said more Mexicans DIED each year, but I could be wrong on that part

This is a helluva story

blindpig
07-06-2009, 12:05 PM
Ya know, I was all set to post this 'elsewhere' but I'm afraid it would be taken in the literal manner that Der Spiegel intended. Mebbe I can find the same info without the 'fair and balanced' commentary.

choppedliver
07-06-2009, 12:19 PM
Ya know, I was all set to post this 'elsewhere' but I'm afraid it would be taken in the literal manner that Der Spiegel intended. Mebbe I can find the same info without the 'fair and balanced' commentary.


Posted yesterday, beat me to it...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5991783

While you are there, check out this one:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5999143&mesg_id=5999143

Kid of the Black Hole
07-06-2009, 12:32 PM
I remember Karenina from PI..not very surprising on her part. I read down to see how hannah Bell was going to weasal out of her OP..she didn't disappoint

EDIT: I do take back one point, I was disappointed that she didn't writhe a little more but was kinda surprised that she went to bat for the GDR as much as she did

blindpig
07-06-2009, 01:11 PM
Ya know, I was all set to post this 'elsewhere' but I'm afraid it would be taken in the literal manner that Der Spiegel intended. Mebbe I can find the same info without the 'fair and balanced' commentary.


Posted yesterday, beat me to it...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5991783

While you are there, check out this one:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5999143&mesg_id=5999143




Nothin' too suprising there, though I really liked 'time for a history lesson'. Typical liberal bullshit, they know a persons experience better than the persons themselves!

anaxarchos
07-06-2009, 01:39 PM
I remember Karenina from PI..not very surprising on her part. I read down to see how hannah Bell was going to weasal out of her OP..she didn't disappoint


Hannah is a good egg but she's a Trot. This made her head explode too... betcha.

Gotta give her points, though... she never gives up.

anaxarchos
07-06-2009, 01:58 PM
Ya know, I was all set to post this 'elsewhere' but I'm afraid it would be taken in the literal manner that Der Spiegel intended. Mebbe I can find the same info without the 'fair and balanced' commentary.


The story is a couple of months old (either that or there were two polls, which is possible). This was news when I was in Germany in May. The German "taxpayers" were really, really "outraged". I saw something "even worse". They talked to a bunch of former East Germans who all were favorable to the old GDR but voted all over the map... Christian Democrats and all kinds of shit. So they ask them on TV:

"You would like to go back to the GDR?"
"Yes"
"Why didn't you vote Communist?"
"They can't win."
"But, you're supposed to vote for who you support..."
"That is not my understanding."
"Why did you vote for _____________?"
"Because I am for _____________." (Fill in random, often local, reason)
"But, you would REALLY like to return to Communism?"
"Yes."

Of course, they concluded that the Easterners just didn't understand voting (too "Democratic" for them). The odd thing is that the Easterners were at a higher educational and cultural level than the Westerners... and it has been 20 years. If you look at the Spiegel article, you will see that they blamed the older folks ("what they get at home") for the propaganda not working in school.

The very oddest thing about all this is that the GDR was no kinda "revolution". It was the wages of war, imposed from outside with very little internal support for Socialism surviving. Apparently, the GDR school propaganda was stickier.

anaxarchos
07-06-2009, 02:07 PM
Ya know, I was all set to post this 'elsewhere' but I'm afraid it would be taken in the literal manner that Der Spiegel intended. Mebbe I can find the same info without the 'fair and balanced' commentary.


Posted yesterday, beat me to it...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5991783

While you are there, check out this one:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5999143&mesg_id=5999143




Nothin' too suprising there, though I really liked 'time for a history lesson'. Typical liberal bullshit, they know a persons experience better than the persons themselves!


It really is amazin' what people will not let themselves see. First you get the Spiegel piece in which the idiotic pop psych of two political hacks gets as much space as the opinion of millions of "East Germans"... "well its a matter of self-identity doncha know?"

But on DU, they don't even need Spiegel. They know the catechism by heart: "They're.... privileged, brainwashed, mad, wrong, upended by dictatorship, uneducated, stupid, misquoted..."

And this by people who would list as their own most noble traits "openness" and edumacation.

And then, these fuckers make fun of real people.

Actual Philistines would blush.

blindpig
07-06-2009, 02:11 PM
I remember Karenina from PI..not very surprising on her part. I read down to see how hannah Bell was going to weasal out of her OP..she didn't disappoint


Hannah is a good egg but she's a Trot. This made her head explode too... betcha.

Gotta give her points, though... she never gives up.




100% agree with that, I'm pretty sure she lurks here sometimes. She oughta sign up here & have a chat.....hell, she ain't no liberal. And as you say, she puts in a lot of work and takes a lot of abuse.

Kid of the Black Hole
07-06-2009, 02:20 PM
Ya know, I was all set to post this 'elsewhere' but I'm afraid it would be taken in the literal manner that Der Spiegel intended. Mebbe I can find the same info without the 'fair and balanced' commentary.


Posted yesterday, beat me to it...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5991783

While you are there, check out this one:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5999143&mesg_id=5999143




Nothin' too suprising there, though I really liked 'time for a history lesson'. Typical liberal bullshit, they know a persons experience better than the persons themselves!


It really is amazin' what people will not let themselves see. First you get the Spiegel piece in which the idiotic pop psych of two political hacks gets as much space as the opinion of millions of "East Germans"... "well its a matter of self-identity doncha know?"

But on DU, they don't even need Spiegel. They know the catechism by heart: "They're.... privileged, brainwashed, mad, wrong, upended by dictatorship, uneducated, stupid, misquoted..."

And this by people who would list as their own most noble traits "openness" and edumacation.

And then, these fuckers make fun of real people.

Actual Philistines would blush.



I liked the guy who wrote this long essay about his friend who fled Poland and at the end he relates that she equivocally prefers North America because "you can say anything you want".

Yeah you can SAY anything you want..and that amounts to..?

Kid of the Black Hole
07-06-2009, 02:26 PM
Ya know, I was all set to post this 'elsewhere' but I'm afraid it would be taken in the literal manner that Der Spiegel intended. Mebbe I can find the same info without the 'fair and balanced' commentary.


Posted yesterday, beat me to it...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5991783

While you are there, check out this one:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5999143&mesg_id=5999143




Nothin' too suprising there, though I really liked 'time for a history lesson'. Typical liberal bullshit, they know a persons experience better than the persons themselves!


It really is amazin' what people will not let themselves see. First you get the Spiegel piece in which the idiotic pop psych of two political hacks gets as much space as the opinion of millions of "East Germans"... "well its a matter of self-identity doncha know?"

But on DU, they don't even need Spiegel. They know the catechism by heart: "They're.... privileged, brainwashed, mad, wrong, upended by dictatorship, uneducated, stupid, misquoted..."

And this by people who would list as their own most noble traits "openness" and edumacation.

And then, these fuckers make fun of real people.

Actual Philistines would blush.



No, I think the biggest reason they're giving is "false recall". TIA is going to shit his pants, because this gives credibility to all those voters who "forgot" they voted Bush

"The Grass Is Always Greener" guy didn't even get his own irony..the grass WAS greener, dickface

hb
07-06-2009, 04:30 PM
just logged in to say:

1. no weaseling
2. not a trot
3. head not exploding
4. assumptions = tricky
5. do lurk sometimes

regards hb

anaxarchos
07-06-2009, 05:11 PM
just logged in to say:

1. no weaseling
2. not a trot
3. head not exploding
4. assumptions = tricky
5. do lurk sometimes

regards hb


Don't take offense... I'm a big fan.

I assumed you were a Trot because of WSW. Trots are welcome on SI in any case, as long as we have at least 4 to support all future splits.

Cheers HB... Fiight the good fight.

BTW, the Kid always insults everyone. It is his nature.

TBF
07-06-2009, 08:42 PM
Glad you stopped by, hb, don't be a stranger. I enjoy your posts on DU (boy, that's something I don't say everyday...).

Kid of the Black Hole
07-06-2009, 09:33 PM
Glad you stopped by, hb, don't be a stranger. I enjoy your posts on DU (boy, that's something I don't say everyday...).


also, don't stay away on account of me, HB. I'm just a jerk, its the only thing I'm good at with clothes on.

anaxarchos
07-06-2009, 09:52 PM
Glad you stopped by, hb, don't be a stranger. I enjoy your posts on DU (boy, that's something I don't say everyday...).


also, don't stay away on account of me, HB. I'm just a jerk, its the only thing I'm good at with clothes on.


You coulda left out the "clothes" part... no? While you are in the confession booth?

Kid of the Black Hole
07-06-2009, 10:14 PM
Glad you stopped by, hb, don't be a stranger. I enjoy your posts on DU (boy, that's something I don't say everyday...).


also, don't stay away on account of me, HB. I'm just a jerk, its the only thing I'm good at with clothes on.


You coulda left out the "clothes" part... no? While you are in the confession booth?




I guess my brand of awkward levity didn't go over too well..but hey I already told you I'm only good at being a jerk so..

choppedliver
07-06-2009, 10:52 PM
just logged in to say:

1. no weaseling
2. not a trot
3. head not exploding
4. assumptions = tricky
5. do lurk sometimes

regards hb


Welcome, hb! Glad your head is still intact, its a good one!

anaxarchos
07-06-2009, 11:59 PM
Glad you stopped by, hb, don't be a stranger. I enjoy your posts on DU (boy, that's something I don't say everyday...).


also, don't stay away on account of me, HB. I'm just a jerk, its the only thing I'm good at with clothes on.


You coulda left out the "clothes" part... no? While you are in the confession booth?




I guess my brand of awkward levity didn't go over too well..but hey I already told you I'm only good at being a jerk so..


I'm not giving you a hard time. I'm just ribbin' you.

runs with scissors
07-07-2009, 12:40 AM
just logged in to say:

1. no weaseling
2. not a trot
3. head not exploding
4. assumptions = tricky
5. do lurk sometimes

regards hb


Hannah!

I just KNEW you lurked here. I knew it! This is great. I still search for your stuff at DU, you always post something interesting and I've learned a lot from you and following your links.

Hope you'll join in.

:)

Don't worry about Kid. If he's rubbing you the wrong way, well at least he's rubbing something other than...

TBF
07-07-2009, 08:42 AM
I guess my brand of awkward levity didn't go over too well..but hey I already told you I'm only good at being a jerk so..

Hey kid, don't let those assholes at PI get to you (and no this time I'm not joking - those of you hiding in the shadows know who you are). It just makes them feel superior to knock down others. They are all into "helping people" (or "sheeple" I guess is the term they prefer), until it actually comes to interactions with other humans. Then it's all about control and superiority. Makes you wonder where they come down on systemic change, and I'm bettin' they are not with "the people" at all. They think they are better than the posters on DU and elsewhere because they've figured out Obama is a fraud, yet they don't see the same behaviors in themselves.

Kid of the Black Hole
07-07-2009, 09:02 AM
I guess my brand of awkward levity didn't go over too well..but hey I already told you I'm only good at being a jerk so..

Hey kid, don't let those assholes at PI get to you (and no this time I'm not joking - those of you hiding in the shadows know who you are). It just makes them feel superior to knock down others. They are all into "helping people" (or "sheeple" I guess is the term they prefer), until it actually comes to interactions with other humans. Then it's all about control and superiority. Makes you wonder where they come down on systemic change, and I'm bettin' they are not with "the people" at all. They think they are better than the posters on DU and elsewhere because they've figured out Obama is a fraud, yet they don't see the same behaviors in themselves.


Most people I know have this attitude. I'd settle for convincing them how gauche it is, forget chaning their minds. And the whiter the group, the worse it gets (in fact it may be largely limited to whites)

People are sheep ba ba ba

But not me bleet bleet

hb
07-08-2009, 02:15 AM
not offended, just thought it was odd - if i wanted to "weasel out" of something, easier just not to post it in the first place.

Question: Is there a place off in a corner somewhere I could post some financial genealogies?

blindpig
07-08-2009, 07:46 AM
not offended, just thought it was odd - if i wanted to "weasel out" of something, easier just not to post it in the first place.

Question: Is there a place off in a corner somewhere I could post some financial genealogies?


Post it in GD, hb. We like that sorta stuff, good to keep it where the lurkers will see it and various commentary and tangents may develop from there.