Log in

View Full Version : Do you deserve to die?



Michael Collins
07-28-2009, 04:28 AM
http://www.scoop.co.nz/images/scoop-logo2.gif http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0907/S00312.htm

The Forgotten Question in the Health Care Debate]
Tuesday, 28 July 2009, 1:09 pm
Opinion: Michael Collins

Do you deserve to die?
Do your friends and family?

http://img.scoop.co.nz/stories/images/0907/3cab3519f13f31dc773f.jpeg
Rationed care. Image

Michael Collins

Scenario 1: You've just been diagnosed with a cancer of the lymphatic system. You're told that it requires a procedure within the next two weeks. Unfortunately, you were laid off from your corporate job 11 months, 30 days ago. You are on your last day of COBRA. Your company retirement and savings are all gone. You can't afford the $1,200 a month premium needed to continue your coverage. Without the operation, you will die. Do you deserve to die?

Scenario 2: Your spouse has a long history of illness. Then you discover she has a virulent infection that, if untreated, threatens to disable her to the point where she's immobile and requires 'round the clock medical care. You work for yourself. While you have catastrophic health insurance, it doesn't cover the needed treatment nor does it provide for nursing care. Does your wife deserve to experience this untreated sickness and suffering until her premature death?

Do you or your family members deserve to die simply because the rulers of this country can't get their act together to provide universal health care?

Do your friends and neighbors deserve the same fate?

What's the meaning of a nation based on a common bond when other citizens, those we don't know and will never meet, face the same grim end to their lives?

Others Determine Our Suffering and Death

We hear talk about health care rationing but one theme is missing from that dialog. Some of you who are the subjects of rationing will certainly suffer and some will clearly die well before your time as a result of health care denied.

Public health care rationing is a term that needs to be changed. Rationing is a conscious choice. Policy makers, legislators, and those who hold this view are saying that it is necessary to deliberately deny citizens health care because there "isn't enough money." These people need to be honest and stop hiding behind abstract terms. It's not rationing. It is mandated suffering and death guaranteed by those who support the current system or future systems that deny care for those in need.

Health care rationing is based on the assumption that we don't have enough dollars to provide for open access to health care by all citizens. But wait! Didn't we have enough dollars just recently to give $4 trillion to failed Wall Street financial institutions? That's now part of our deficit. We will have to pay it back. Yet we're told that we don't have enough dollars for a truly comprehensive universal health care system. We're also told that the health care system that we do end up with cannot, under any circumstances, add to the national debt.

Let's see now, we can't afford to ease suffering and save lives across the board and whatever we do short of that can't incur any debt. But we've just seen a bipartisan commitment of $4 trillion (plus another $8.6 trillion set aside) to bailout banks and save bank executive jobs but we can't do the same to save your life or that of your friends, family and fellow citizens.

Here's another example of distorted thinking and priorities. It is a conscious choice.

The proposed defense budget for 2010 is $664 billion dollars. A large portion will be spent on the Iraq and Afghan wars "defending" us by creating even more enemies than we ever had in that part of the world. But it's a matter of priorities. In order to defend us, the rulers require that we sacrifice our well being and lives at home to pay for that defense.

The Culture of Rationed Death

This is what's called a crisis in values.

The culture of rationed death prevails over the fundamental decency and humanity of caring for the sick.

Those aligned against universal health care consciously choose to impose their culture of death on the entirety of the population.

Who speaks for those of us who will end up without health care?

Which major figures on either side of the debate address universal health care as a life or death issue?

Who among the advocates of rationing are without health insurance?

Who among them are unable to afford or obtain their own critical care or the same for their loved ones?

Who among them will step forward and tell those denied medical care:

"You deserve to die."

END

Special thanks to Kathlyn Stone for her very helpful comments.

This article may be reproduced in part or whole with attribution of authorship and a link to this article.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0907/S00312.htm

choppedliver
07-28-2009, 08:06 AM
Hear, hear!!! Thank you so much for this, over 18,000 people die everyday just because they don't have health care!! over 50 a day!

choppedliver
07-28-2009, 09:44 AM
http://hc-dw.org/

How many more must die??

18,000 is a low estimate, it is really hard to count, but using that figure it is 6 times the number than died on 9/11, 4 times the number of Americans that have died in Iraq, more than die from drunk driving each year. Where is the outrage? when I posted this at 9:37 18 people had already died today, that's 2 people an hour, where is the outrage?? When people ask me why I'm so dedicated to this cause its because over 50 people die every day!!! People are willing to send their children to die believing its payback time for 9/11 (if they only knew, but that's another story). How many people have to die here???

We can talk about the other horrible things like nearly a million bankruptcies leading to how much homelessness...that is horrible, but 50 plus people dying a day is beyond egregious, this is pure evil...

I research how much people will save money wise, tax wise to tell my congressman, because that's what he wants to know, but I think I'll just go in on Thursday and say 50 a day, 50 a day, 50 a day.... I have an anti-war tee shirt that says "Not One more Day, Not One more Dollar, Not One more Death"....fits here too well...

Since my initial post 2 more have died, this site says 20,000 a year; I have read some place that, like the unemployment figures its more like 30,000...

Two Americas
07-28-2009, 03:43 PM
"We can't afford it."

That argument needs to be demolished. "We" - who is "we?" How come 6 and 7 figure salaries to health care industry executives are affordable? How come billions in stock dividends and capital gains on health care are affordable?

"We don't have the money?"

Whom are people speaking for when they say that? If "we" means the owners, then it is a lie. It means "we don't want to give up any of the money we are taking from you." If by "we" people mean the working class, then yes it is true - "we don't have the money." Why not? Where is it? Who stole it?

choppedliver
07-28-2009, 10:07 PM
What's really insane is that people don't die in other industrial countries because of lack of health coverage...and they never go bankrupt due to medical bills... only here, the greatest capitalist country in the world!! (on edit, do I need to have a sarcasm smilie here?)

Now they are saying they won't require employers to cover their workers either, another way to pinch every penny out of the people...

Michael Collins
07-29-2009, 02:04 AM
Hear, hear!!! Thank you so much for this, over 18,000 people die everyday just because they don't have health care!! over 50 a day!


You got it right - The National Institute of Medicine 2004 - excellent study
http://www.iom.edu/?id=19175

Who would knowingly allow this to continue - "The Gang of 6" and everyone else stopping universal health care.

Michael Collins
07-29-2009, 02:07 AM
"We can't afford it."

That argument needs to be demolished. "We" - who is "we?" How come 6 and 7 figure salaries to health care industry executives are affordable? How come billions in stock dividends and capital gains on health care are affordable?

"We don't have the money?"

Whom are people speaking for when they say that? If "we" means the owners, then it is a lie. It means "we don't want to give up any of the money we are taking from you." If by "we" people mean the working class, then yes it is true - "we don't have the money." Why not? Where is it? Who stole it?


These figures are the argument. I'll need to poke around or if you know already tell me - but methodologically, the 18,000 is based on what is known I wonder if there's a study that factors in people simply not showing up because they don't have the cash or people who seek emergency room care, because they don't, and get blown off.

We are part of the real "right to life" movement.

Michael Collins
07-29-2009, 02:13 AM
"We can't afford it."

That argument needs to be demolished. "We" - who is "we?" How come 6 and 7 figure salaries to health care industry executives are affordable? How come billions in stock dividends and capital gains on health care are affordable?

"We don't have the money?"

Whom are people speaking for when they say that? If "we" means the owners, then it is a lie. It means "we don't want to give up any of the money we are taking from you." If by "we" people mean the working class, then yes it is true - "we don't have the money." Why not? Where is it? Who stole it?


I know. Isn't that the dumbest statement ever. Your points are correct - but here's another one.

Right now our money is totally meaningless. We have what teachers call a "token economy" - primitive currency that is based on mutually accepted fantasies. So why not just spend up and get everybody covered? Because the most valuable thing that THEY have is "shortages" - "scarce resources" - "deficits" - etc.

Strike 1: Limited but decent mortgage assistance bill fails.
Strike 2 Credit card bill passed but no limit on credit card interest.
Strike 3: Universal, single payer health care fails.

These clowns think that they're invincible.

I know we were in extremely serious trouble when Obama went to England for the G-20 meeting, there were huge protests, largely spontaneous, and Obama and the US media acted like it had nothing to do with the visit. They don't care because they don't have to.

runs with scissors
07-29-2009, 02:38 AM
I know we were in extremely serious trouble when Obama went to England for the G-20 meeting, there were huge protests, largely spontaneous, and Obama and the US media acted like it had nothing to do with the visit. They don't care because they don't have to.


No kidding. There was no coverage of the protests. Nothing, nada.

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/03W19NA1pa6iC/610x.jpg

Getty Images 3 months ago
A man holds up a banner in central London in protest against the G20 summit meetings on April 1, 2009. London is bracing for angry protests before and during Thursday's G20 summit, which will see fortress-like security for world leaders including US President Barack Obama.

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0gnSfe140bauo/610x.jpg

AP Photo 3 months ago
Indonesian activists wear masks of G20 leaders, top row from left, British Prime Minister Gordon Brown, Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin, Chinese President Hu Jintao, French President Nicolas Sarkozy, President Barack Obama, Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd and, foreground left to right, Turkey's Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan and Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva during a protest outside the British Embassy in Jakarta, Indonesia, Thursday, April 2, 2009.



Oh wait. Here ya go...

http://industryofthecool.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/obama-queen-b.jpg

Awwwww

choppedliver
07-29-2009, 09:01 PM
Made my own sign: 50 Americans Die Every Day Due to No Health Care! Really home made, but I never see any signs about that...Other side 20,000 every year...It will be my focus with the senators and my congressman...

Crazy thing about the money is that our government spends more per capita already per person than any other country! and they'd save money with single payer and cover everyone!!

We are the only industrialized country with deaths due to lack of coverage, and the only country with bankruptcies due to medical bills!!

I'll carry my sign with all you in mind!! and give a good shout for all here!!

Kid of the Black Hole
07-30-2009, 10:28 PM
Made my own sign: 50 Americans Die Every Day Due to No Health Care! Really home made, but I never see any signs about that...Other side 20,000 every year...It will be my focus with the senators and my congressman...

Crazy thing about the money is that our government spends more per capita already per person than any other country! and they'd save money with single payer and cover everyone!!

We are the only industrialized country with deaths due to lack of coverage, and the only country with bankruptcies due to medical bills!!

I'll carry my sign with all you in mind!! and give a good shout for all here!!


Don't know if this is relevant or not, but I have a friend who has taking to calling Obamas plan BO-care. Know you are always looking for catchy stuff, not sure what if anything you could do with that one but its one I've not heard before.

choppedliver
07-31-2009, 11:07 AM
Made my own sign: 50 Americans Die Every Day Due to No Health Care! Really home made, but I never see any signs about that...Other side 20,000 every year...It will be my focus with the senators and my congressman...

Crazy thing about the money is that our government spends more per capita already per person than any other country! and they'd save money with single payer and cover everyone!!

We are the only industrialized country with deaths due to lack of coverage, and the only country with bankruptcies due to medical bills!!

I'll carry my sign with all you in mind!! and give a good shout for all here!!


Don't know if this is relevant or not, but I have a friend who has taking to calling Obamas plan BO-care. Know you are always looking for catchy stuff, not sure what if anything you could do with that one but its one I've not heard before.


Funny! I always call him BO...there was a commercial when I was a kid for deodorant and there was this fog horn voice in it that would say BeeeeOhhhh, and that's how I say it sometimes...