The crisis of bourgeois economics

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blindpig
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Re: The crisis of bourgeois economics

Post by blindpig » Sat Jan 04, 2020 3:57 pm

Dhalgren
06-17-2011, 10:55 AM

From the article brother cakes sites:

DeLong believes that in order to preserve the capitalist system, the government can and should follow Keynesian stabilization policies to avoid major economic downturns that threaten the current capitalist—and imperialist—order.

This is something that I have never really understood (of course, among other things). Capitalists and their supporters are very intelligent individuals (even the Austrians) - so how is it that they do not see that something along the lines of Keynesian adjustments is beneficial to their systems overall survival? I understand the near impossibility of regulating and maintaining regulation of capitalism, but that doesn't explain why they don't try and repeatedly try to stabilize their system. It seems counter productive ,particularly for the capitalists as a class...
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Re: The crisis of bourgeois economics

Post by blindpig » Sat Jan 04, 2020 3:58 pm

anaxarchos
06-17-2011, 11:12 AM

This article by Petrino DiLeo is really concerned with a different set of issues than Harmon's original which started the OP. Harmon's piece really concerned the general evolution of capitalist economic ideas through the time of Keynes to the (near) present. DiLeo is concerned with the ideological struggle of the present day within capitalist economics. He is quite a bit weaker on the basics in comparison to the other narrative.

Nevertheless, this issue becomes more timely every day. They are clearly "failing" and flailing.

So, is there really such a thing as "neoliberal economics" (as opposed to neoliberal policy)? Is there really an alternative to Keynes which produces a different result?
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Re: The crisis of bourgeois economics

Post by blindpig » Sat Jan 04, 2020 3:58 pm

Dhalgren
06-17-2011, 11:53 AM

So, is there really such a thing as "neoliberal economics" (as opposed to neoliberal policy)? Is there really an alternative to Keynes which produces a different result?

Has there been any response to the crises since Keynes, by any government, that has not been some variation of Keynesian-ism? And (one other question), do the Libertarian-leaning economists hold (in real life) that government has no role in dealing with the recurring crises?
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Re: The crisis of bourgeois economics

Post by blindpig » Sat Jan 04, 2020 3:59 pm

anaxarchos
06-17-2011, 12:45 PM

Has there been any response to the crises since Keynes, by any government, that has not been some variation of Keynesian-ism? And (one other question), do the Libertarian-leaning economists hold (in real life) that government has no role in dealing with the recurring crises?

I think the answers are "no" and "no"... What there has been is a propensity to steal while "stimulating" (tax cuts are a combination of theft and demand generation with the ratio rising toward the former as the targeted bracket rises). The universal demand for austerity could be argued as neoliberal but it is just as easily explained by their overarching fear of inflation.

I think "Austrian Economics" was not only obscure; it was entirely contentless. The psychological schools (marginalists, behaviorists, etc.) are just as bankrupt. They have nothing... no "victories" of any sort.

More mysterious is why the resurgent Keynesians have not really been proposing Keynesian "solutions". "Government can't create real jobs...", yadda, yadda. Absolute horseshit. Who believes such fairy tales?

I read a book a decade ago, which I can't remember the name of, which claimed that "Keynesian solutions" were not really Keynesian. The author argued that the general Keynesian direction emboldened certain politicians who then did shit which kinda worked, which the Keynesias then adopted as their own...

Yikes... Bourgeois politicians leading the Keynesians? Might as well ask for the return of the Knights of Malta.
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Re: The crisis of bourgeois economics

Post by blindpig » Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:00 pm

Dhalgren
06-17-2011, 01:17 PM

This from the original article:

Keynes's only mistake, Strachey held, was that he thought the capitalists or their political parties would introduce such remedies of their own volition. In fact it required pressure from below, from the workers' parties and unions. 'The Keynesian remedies...will be opposed by the capitalists certainly: but experience shows they can be imposed by the electorate'.52 Keynes helped 'the democratic and democratic socialist forces to find a way of continuously modifying the system, in spite of the opposition of the capitalist interests... And in doing so he helped show the peoples of the West a way forward which did not lead across the bourne of total class war...

This is the worst kind of "faith-based" crap, yet. Liberal democracies are bourgeois dictatorships. The only way any regulation of capitalism is allowed is if it can be shown to be of benefit to the owner class. How is it that someone with Strachey's background could make such a ridiculous statement so blithely? Was it simply the drug of post-war prosperity? Is that what blinded he and others who should have known better?
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Re: The crisis of bourgeois economics

Post by blindpig » Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:01 pm

anaxarchos
06-17-2011, 02:02 PM

Prosperity goes a very long way... There is also the very powerful drug of self-delusion on the question of how far one can go electorally (especially as all other options seem to recede - for a time).

Webb smokes that drug as well...

"In fact it required pressure from below, from the workers' parties and unions. 'The Keynesian remedies...will be opposed by the capitalists certainly: but experience shows they can be imposed..."

You hear this every day from Democrats. The Keynesian remedies are in fact capitalist remedies. When the capitalists cease to support them, they are no longer "imposed".

Of course, there are also proletarian "remedies"... but they ain't imposed by "pressure"... and they ain't "Keynesian".
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Re: The crisis of bourgeois economics

Post by blindpig » Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:02 pm

anaxarchos
06-17-2011, 02:56 PM
Revamped WPA To Create 50,000 New Jobs By Disassembling, Reassembling Hoover Dam

January 7, 2011 | ISSUE 47•01 (http://www.theonion.com/issue/4701/)

WASHINGTON—In an effort to boost the economy and promote job growth, representatives from the newly revived Works Progress Administration announced Thursday their plan to dismantle, piece by piece, the 3.25 million cubic yards of concrete forming the Hoover Dam, and then immediately rebuild it. "This is a vital initiative," said WPA director Ted Doogan, who was appointed last week. "Systematically tearing down such a massive edifice will create at least 25,000 jobs over the next five years. And then reassembling it, using all the same pieces in the exact same configuration, will employ another 25,000 workers. America is back." Other public works projects currently underway include the bulldozing of libraries, the burning of national forests, and the defacing of public murals, which will be followed by a massive plan to rebuild libraries, revive national forests, and repaint public murals.


Image


http://www.theonion.com/articles/revamp ... emb,18727/
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Re: The crisis of bourgeois economics

Post by blindpig » Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:03 pm

Dhalgren
06-17-2011, 03:09 PM

The Onion is funny, but this is how many folks view "government" jobs - as "make work". When you have to eat, pay rent, support kids and pay medical bills any job that pays money seems pretty damned real. And, you know what? There really is a whole lot of shit to tear down in this bloody country. Demolition is legitimate work - especially in the US!
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Re: The crisis of bourgeois economics

Post by blindpig » Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:05 pm

anaxarchos
06-17-2011, 03:43 PM

It is how Liberal Democratic politicians see it as well... and even the "radicals".

"What will they do if we were to hire them?"

"They could make steel, grow crops, take care of babies..."

"Nah, that wouldn't be efficient."

"But, but, they are doing NOTHING now. How 'efficient' is that?"

"Nah, we don't do that here. That would make fledgling entrepreneurs feel bad."
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Re: The crisis of bourgeois economics

Post by blindpig » Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:06 pm

Dhalgren
06-17-2011, 04:24 PM

Man, them is the feelingest bunch of vampires I ever heard of! They got "invisible hands" and "value is a psychological thing" and "human nature makes us do this stuff" and all that "feeling free" and things...shit... They are just one big nerve cell...

https://web.archive.org/web/20130327173 ... 52831.html

(minimal editing for clarity)
"There is great chaos under heaven; the situation is excellent."

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