The crisis of bourgeois economics

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blindpig
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Re: The crisis of bourgeois economics

Post by blindpig » Sat Jan 04, 2020 3:12 pm

PraxMan
08-04-2009, 10:19 PM

but that's OK...Americans don't know much about history and treat the world as if it was a supermarket; pushing their cart down an aisle and picking out products they like to eat.

At no time, except in the addled minded American tradition did anyone on the REAL LEFT THINK Keynes was a radical and not a bourgeois economist, so what exactly is the point of this garbage other than to point out that very stupid people who never bothered reading Keynes' 'bourgeois economics' continue to use it as a straw man to push American 'bourgeois economics'...like libertarianism, monetarism, cronyism or whatever a bunch of lobbyists decide is an 'ism' to the current crop of American idiots pushing their poison...like Reaganism or Thatcherism.

(psst...libertarianism is a political movement and not an economic theory...dumb ass)
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Re: The crisis of bourgeois economics

Post by blindpig » Sat Jan 04, 2020 3:12 pm

PraxMan
08-04-2009, 10:25 PM
Why not ask him to explain Keynes' multiplier effect?

Last time I looked that Keynes theory was bedrock in American capitalist theory?

"If you build it, they will come!"

dumb asses leading dumb asses...

Protagoras?
Why is it that American references are either the Bile or ancient Greeks and Romans?
Answer: Your hardwired for fascism.
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Re: The crisis of bourgeois economics

Post by blindpig » Sat Jan 04, 2020 3:14 pm

anaxarchos
08-04-2009, 10:41 PM

He is or was on the Central Committee of the British Socialist Workers Party. He is also an economist (from the LSE). The Trot usually shows through, but not so much in this article.

Who is a Libertarian?

(psst... another outburst you are either going to retreat from, or make up some convoluted shit to support).
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Re: The crisis of bourgeois economics

Post by blindpig » Sat Jan 04, 2020 3:16 pm

anaxarchos
08-04-2009, 10:43 PM

You are a waste of time. Let's just avoid each other.
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Re: The crisis of bourgeois economics

Post by blindpig » Sat Jan 04, 2020 3:16 pm

Two Americas
08-04-2009, 10:55 PM

And you are calling others stupid and dumbass?
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Re: The crisis of bourgeois economics

Post by blindpig » Sat Jan 04, 2020 3:17 pm

Username
08-04-2009, 11:11 PM

I think the piece assumes that there will be some controls. By modifying those controls things can be made to be more predictable. What some of the controls are, how effective they are, is what I got out of the piece. My question was, is there any prediction of what happens when those controls are gone, or ignored, or not used? That seems to be the question of where we are right now, or at least where we are headed, isn't it?

As for the CDS question and whether or not it changes anything, I'm not saying it does or doesn't, I just assumed it would since the salaries and bonuses have to come from somewhere. Also, it caused a big brouha which would have been unecessary if nothing changed.


From what I understand about Keynes, his approach is accurate. If it is accurate, then I don't know how someone "opposes" that, unless they can come up with something that is more accurate.

As far as Newton, I would ask what gravity has to do with baking bread, other than keeping the dough in the pan? Or do you think it's time to make bread yet?
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Re: The crisis of bourgeois economics

Post by blindpig » Sat Jan 04, 2020 3:18 pm

anaxarchos
08-04-2009, 11:14 PM
There is your convoluted shit. A minute ago he was a "Libertarian" and now that shit is forgotten. On to the next....

You don't know jack, except how to posture. You want the last word, pompous ignorant asshole? It's yours.
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Re: The crisis of bourgeois economics

Post by blindpig » Sat Jan 04, 2020 3:19 pm

Username
08-05-2009, 04:11 AM

I found the whole story to be so on point that it's hard to find a place to begin. Besides the title, I find the story line to be appropriate. The way the innovation occurred, everything finally going well and then a kid throws a rock into the works and something completely different results. And I thought the whole Poor Richard style was hilarious. It made me belly laugh. I think I just made you shudder. Also, the way the character became more and more sophisticated. I just think it is an appropriate story. I should have made this response over there when you asked me about it, but with all the spamming and everything. I admit I handled it rather poorly. It's as if people are expecting to get something accomplished here or something. I think the spammers should go. It contributes absolutely nothing other than disruption and in most places message board spammers are considered to be the lowest form of life on the internet. I guess here it is tolerated so that the lowest spot can be reserved for -- fill in the blank --

I wish I had it to do over again.
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Re: The crisis of bourgeois economics

Post by blindpig » Sat Jan 04, 2020 3:19 pm

meganmonkey
08-05-2009, 06:17 PM

"Keynes's only mistake, Strachey held, was that he thought the capitalists or their political parties would introduce such remedies of their own volition. In fact it required pressure from below, from the workers' parties and unions. 'The Keynesian remedies...will be opposed by the capitalists certainly: but experience shows they can be imposed by the electorate'.52 Keynes helped 'the democratic and democratic socialist forces to find a way of continuously modifying the system, in spite of the opposition of the capitalist interests... And in doing so he helped show the peoples of the West a way forward which did not lead across the bourne of total class war...'53"

But boy am I learning a lot and I'm starting to see how things are fitting together.

"...experience shows they can be imposed by the force of the electorate..."

Uh, yeah, sure...

Okay back to reading this in full...
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Re: The crisis of bourgeois economics

Post by blindpig » Sat Jan 04, 2020 3:20 pm

anaxarchos
08-05-2009, 08:14 PM

Keynes' "simple remedies" are politically unacceptable. You don't have to believe me. You can turn on your TV. Not even the "left-wing" Stiglitz or Krugman have even approached proposals to "socialize investment". Not even the "Socialist" from Vermont, Sanders, has broached the issue. And socialized investment doesn't go nearly far enough to fully "control" the actual recessionary cycle. Even the least controversial Keynesian proposal - his monetary policy - is not reasonably supported by Republicans, Blue Dogs, The Obama "Team", or Liberals. The Keynesian Policy has gone backwards from the 1940s, even as the technical acknowledgement of its accuracy is once again accepted.

Then there is the underlying cause of economic crisis which has historically been resolved between, rather than within, national economies. Keynes doesn't even address that. The irony here is that Keynes sets out to "prove" that Capitalist crisis is not inevitable and ends up proving exactly the opposite.

On your "controls" issue, controls are like civil liberties whenever a crisis is deemed to occur. They are the first to go when they are supposed to be the most important. Economic crisis is structural but expressed as a speculative "bubble" (every time). The bubble is caused by a lack of outlet for Capital. Under such conditions, "controls" are a check dam standing against a raging flood. In this recession, two thirds of the CDSs were traded on "private markets" which were entirely unregulated, precisely to sidestep "controls".


Finally there is the issue of baking bread. The subject was Economics and Smith, Ricardo, Marx, Keynes and some additional dead guys, are all important to Economics, just as Newton is to Physics. As far as the baking analogy goes, Economics in turn determines whether we are baking bread or Alaska King Crabs. The answer matters a great deal.
"There is great chaos under heaven; the situation is excellent."

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