Sympathy for the Devils...

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blindpig
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Re: Sympathy for the Devils...

Post by blindpig » Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:19 pm

What's with the constant references to "dark money?" Scumbag capitalists rigging elections is the norm.
That's the elephant in the Russian Tea Room. Every time I hear one of these pols or propagandists spewing "Russian election interference" a bit of a rage comes over me. That none of these pieces of shit can never ever mention that billion spent relative to Russia's paltry effort(if that) really sez it all.
"There is great chaos under heaven; the situation is excellent."

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blindpig
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Re: Sympathy for the Devils...

Post by blindpig » Wed Feb 26, 2020 11:59 pm

snip

Why, despite the warnings, is Sanders still winning? One reason is that a lot of people like him and what he stands for. Another reason is that other candidates are splitting the votes of moderate Democrats, leaving him with a plurality on the left. But there’s a third reason: Socialism doesn’t freak out Democratic voters the way it freaks out other Americans. On this subject, Democrats are very different not just from Republicans, but also from independents, who represent about 40 percent of Americans and about 30 percent of the electorate. Socialism is a loser among independents, and this makes it a liability in a general election. But Democrats don’t feel an aversion to socialism. So perhaps they don’t see the extent of the political danger.


The detachment starts with Sanders voters. In a September poll taken by Data for Progress, 37 percent of them identified themselves not as progressives or liberals, but as socialists, democratic socialists, or communists. Nearly all of them endorsed democratic socialism. In a January NBC/Wall Street Journal poll, most Sanders voters endorsed socialism even without the word “democratic” in front of it. Only 4 percent of them opposed it. These people aren’t likely to buy the argument that nominating a socialist is an unnecessary risk. For them, electing a socialist is the ballgame.

But the problem goes beyond Sanders supporters. Rank-and-file Democrats, as a whole, are significantly more pro-socialist than independents are. And while Republicans, conversely, are more anti-socialist than independents are, the gap between Democrats and independents, on average, is about 10 points bigger than the gap between Republicans and independents.


Over the past year, numerous national polls have asked Americans whether they view socialism positively or negatively. In every poll, Democrats lean in favor of socialism, and independents don’t. In every poll, the opinions of voters or of Americans in the aggregate—Democrats, independents, and Republicans combined—add up to a net rejection of socialism.

more....

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/202 ... ction.html
You are a prince of the philistines if your name is WILLIAM SALETAN...oops, wrong thread.

Within the narrow bonds of philistine politics this shameless toad is correct, left to itself the current reliable electorate will reject 'socialism' out of hand. After all, people only vote if they think they've got a dog in the fight. And so roughly half of eligible voters don't bother. The Dems haven't 'delivered' in the lifetimes of most, after all. And both parties would keep it that way, it is predictable and within allowable bounds. But if that non-voting half got riled up, that would be interesting.

Bernie ain't no socialist, nothing near and I don't think he would be allowed to win, and even if he did it would be a bit of stitching up the social safety net, a pretend return to pretend environmentalism and more imperialism. But this craze for socialism is an indication of popular dissatisfaction with the current arrangement and just as importantly of the direction that dissatisfaction is taking that we would be remiss in ignoring or dismissal. This seems a bit different than Occupy, which ran from ideology like a scalded cat. Muddled as it is, there is the embryo of ideology here. And, as has been said elsewhere, "you got anything better to do?"
"There is great chaos under heaven; the situation is excellent."

solidgold
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Re: Sympathy for the Devils...

Post by solidgold » Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:55 pm

blindpig wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 11:59 pm
Bernie ain't no socialist.
Not good enough, ironically. A true "Bolshevik," as Bernie is to both Sean Hannity and Chris Mathews, would not wimp out over Cuba in a stupid debate. The paranoia is pretty fucking funny.

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Re: Sympathy for the Devils...

Post by blindpig » Fri Feb 28, 2020 1:19 pm

solidgold wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:55 pm
blindpig wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 11:59 pm
Bernie ain't no socialist.
Not good enough, ironically. A true "Bolshevik," as Bernie is to both Sean Hannity and Chris Mathews, would not wimp out over Cuba in a stupid debate. The paranoia is pretty fucking funny.
Depending upon the outcome in these parts on Saturday paranoia could develop into full bore hysteria. It would be great if the real and fictional Democratic parties go medieval on each other. I think it will happen, sooner or later, unless Bernie inexplicably fades. Steyr gonna take a chunk outta Biden & if his money pays off could leave Bernie with something close to a plurality which will set off all the alarums. Bloomberg's strategy is a good one if preventing a 'socialist takeover'<sic> of the Democratic Party, even at the cost of the election, is the goal. This got nothing to do with actual socialism but rather with the popular legitimacy of socialism. Three quarters of a century of Bernay's kid's finest, an absurd amount of treasure blown, and they still haven't convinced the mob that that's rain splashing off their boots. But never fear, Bloomberg's billions, no doubt abetted by his fellows, will open up a can of Red-Bait the likes of which ain't been seen since us old farts were children. This will co-mingle with the ongoing manufactured anti-Russian hysteria bolstering imperialism to squash any anti-capitalism sentiment for a generation. Or maybe not, maybe 2020 will be the year that bourgeois democracy jumps the shark.
"There is great chaos under heaven; the situation is excellent."

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Re: Sympathy for the Devils...

Post by kidoftheblackhole » Sat Feb 29, 2020 1:37 am

solidgold wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:55 pm
blindpig wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 11:59 pm
Bernie ain't no socialist.
Not good enough, ironically. A true "Bolshevik," as Bernie is to both Sean Hannity and Chris Mathews, would not wimp out over Cuba in a stupid debate. The paranoia is pretty fucking funny.
I think Bernie would be a "dissident" to the proceedings (at best) but I tend to agree with Chris Matthews that if the Reds had won there would be executions in Central Park..and he would be in line (although he is so inconsequential that I'm not sure anymore would notice or care considering that far greater matters would be at hand)

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Re: Sympathy for the Devils...

Post by blindpig » Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:17 pm

Super Tuesday: 'At Stake Is the Soul of the Democratic Party'


Indeed. Well, they can turn off the klaxons, stand down the ninjas, the situation has returned to normal. The danger of a socialist revolution has been averted. From here on the Word will be 'socialism has been rejected by the American People'. End of Story. How this will play with the Bernie Bros remains to be seen, while we've seen this movie they do seem a bit more militant baa-baas this time. We'll see.....

Bernie sounds upbeat, more so than two days ago when a socialist revolution was being predicted. Who wants that? Certainly not Bernie. So then, back to the script. Back to the sheepdog business. Now Bernie has got somebody to surrender to and deliver up the sheep.

The Democratic Party would rather go down in the putrid flames of a dumpster fire that is the man formerly known as the Senator From Mastercard and endure Four More Years of disagreeable optics from Cheeto Man than allow that there might be anything good and acceptable about socialism.

Besides, most of their disdain for the chumpster is the optics anyways. And that ' Soul of the Democratic Party', it is firmly ensconced on the heart of murderous Capital, where it was born and where it will die.
"There is great chaos under heaven; the situation is excellent."

solidgold
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Re: Sympathy for the Devils...

Post by solidgold » Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:07 pm

blindpig wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:17 pm
Super Tuesday: 'At Stake Is the Soul of the Democratic Party'


Indeed. Well, they can turn off the klaxons, stand down the ninjas, the situation has returned to normal. The danger of a socialist revolution has been averted. From here on the Word will be 'socialism has been rejected by the American People'. End of Story. How this will play with the Bernie Bros remains to be seen, while we've seen this movie they do seem a bit more militant baa-baas this time. We'll see.....

Bernie sounds upbeat, more so than two days ago when a socialist revolution was being predicted. Who wants that? Certainly not Bernie. So then, back to the script. Back to the sheepdog business. Now Bernie has got somebody to surrender to and deliver up the sheep.

The Democratic Party would rather go down in the putrid flames of a dumpster fire that is the man formerly known as the Senator From Mastercard and endure Four More Years of disagreeable optics from Cheeto Man than allow that there might be anything good and acceptable about socialism.

Besides, most of their disdain for the chumpster is the optics anyways. And that ' Soul of the Democratic Party', it is firmly ensconced on the heart of murderous Capital, where it was born and where it will die.
Heard a mix of things: voter suppression in Texas, Bernie not appealing to black voters, young people not coming out, Elizabeth Warren not dropping out. I don't think the last one is making as much of a difference as the B-bros think. Meanwhile, Biden is malfunctioning before our eyes. Oof. What a truly shitty party.

Not really sure if it's optics or they actually think Biden has a chance against Trump. 'Cause he straight up doesn't.

solidgold
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Re: Sympathy for the Devils...

Post by solidgold » Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:18 pm

Also, unrelated, but Beto is rookie of the year for worst member of the Democratic Party. I think I got Beto Derangement Syndrome.

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kidoftheblackhole
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Re: Sympathy for the Devils...

Post by kidoftheblackhole » Thu Mar 05, 2020 1:20 am

solidgold wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:07 pm
blindpig wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:17 pm
Super Tuesday: 'At Stake Is the Soul of the Democratic Party'


Indeed. Well, they can turn off the klaxons, stand down the ninjas, the situation has returned to normal. The danger of a socialist revolution has been averted. From here on the Word will be 'socialism has been rejected by the American People'. End of Story. How this will play with the Bernie Bros remains to be seen, while we've seen this movie they do seem a bit more militant baa-baas this time. We'll see.....

Bernie sounds upbeat, more so than two days ago when a socialist revolution was being predicted. Who wants that? Certainly not Bernie. So then, back to the script. Back to the sheepdog business. Now Bernie has got somebody to surrender to and deliver up the sheep.

The Democratic Party would rather go down in the putrid flames of a dumpster fire that is the man formerly known as the Senator From Mastercard and endure Four More Years of disagreeable optics from Cheeto Man than allow that there might be anything good and acceptable about socialism.

Besides, most of their disdain for the chumpster is the optics anyways. And that ' Soul of the Democratic Party', it is firmly ensconced on the heart of murderous Capital, where it was born and where it will die.
Heard a mix of things: voter suppression in Texas, Bernie not appealing to black voters, young people not coming out, Elizabeth Warren not dropping out. I don't think the last one is making as much of a difference as the B-bros think. Meanwhile, Biden is malfunctioning before our eyes. Oof. What a truly shitty party.

Not really sure if it's optics or they actually think Biden has a chance against Trump. 'Cause he straight up doesn't.
I think there are multiple threads and none (maybe one) have to do with personality:

1. Ever wonder why the Dems consistently turn a blind eye to voter suppression (which is a euphemism btw) on a massive scale -- even when it more or less seals their own fate? Now you know.

1a. Elections are being decided on the margins. Anaxarchos called it "point shaving" and that is how the game is played. Four years ago, blacks in Detroit don't turn out like they did for Obama, people who are worse off than four years before break heavily and -- boom -- you get Trump. The system isn't really prepared for a "wave of enthusiasm" (which even Trump did not enjoy) or, to call it more properly, a Wave of Animus. One thing you can't fault worker's for is we hate those fuckers. All of them.

2. Much as putting down Sanders was a sign of party strength (and, conversely, the rise of Trump was a sign of fractures and weakness in the Republican Party) the same thing is playing out again jsut as it was bound to -- as nothing was settled last time. The difference is that the consequences are even more severe this time -- how do they hold together parties that are moving from fraying to unraveling at the seams?

2a. Social crisis, economic crisis, .., can't forestall political crisis forever even in the seat of Empire. Trump is the perfect incarnation of the obscenity of American power. The Empire has no hair piece. But believe this -- it can and will get FAR worse. (eg Not too long now before England declares itself a "Christian" nation).

3. Now what? 'Bernie' looks like toast and with him the idea that the groundswell of sentiment behind him can be diverted into the confines of the DP. The underlying conditions aren't going away -- so "Now What?" NB this also means, from the perspective of the Dems Party of Order, that there is little hope of any rapproachment -- they've proven and are proving again that they'll break their own back to spite their spine. There was open talk of "capital strikes" against Sanders until yesterday's jubilee.

3a. Serious soul searching needed on the part of BAR and all fellow travelers. Black folks are clinging to a walking (well, shambling) cadaver who is clinging to the coat tails of Obama. And it's NOT because they're stupid or because they're being (uniquely) manipulated. Far too much claptrap about the Greens and running third party. Their establishment counterparts (think The Root) are dunking all over them right now. And this within the context that black people KNOW Joe Biden (although not exactly in the way Jim Clyburn was implying lol).

3b. Virtually NO ONE took the right lesson from Corbynism (short lived as it was). Corbyn swept to power as an anti-establishment figure. But his timidity, vacillation, and ties to the Party of Order (to borrow from Marx) were glaring from the get go -- and the hard right filled the vacuum.

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Re: Sympathy for the Devils...

Post by kidoftheblackhole » Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:32 am


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