Reading Capital, continued (thread #2)...

User avatar
blindpig
Posts: 10744
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:44 pm
Location: Turtle Island
Contact:

Re: Reading Capital, continued (thread #2)...

Post by blindpig » Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:08 pm

blindpig
10-13-2009, 07:56 AM

For sure the trickiest part for me, and I used to be pretty good at algebra. Use it or lose it, I guess.

News of this reading is reaching strange and disturbing quarters:

HamdenRice said
Btw, how are things going over at socialist independent in your sig line? I hear that the only active thread is some pompous windbag giving a line by line reading of Das Kapital. Or was that the other forum?
"There is great chaos under heaven; the situation is excellent."

User avatar
blindpig
Posts: 10744
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:44 pm
Location: Turtle Island
Contact:

Re: Reading Capital, continued (thread #2)...

Post by blindpig » Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:09 pm

Kid of the Black Hole
10-13-2009, 08:12 AM

then I can only bow to your genius. I've read it in small doses, I've read it directly alongside explanatory works, I've read it one paragraph (or even one numbered item) at a time.

Its like, the second you open the book a countdown starts til your your eyes glaze over

T-10, T-9, T-8, ..

I think Lenin famously said that you had to read Hegel to understand Capital and you had to read Capital to understand Hegel. Which squares with Hegel's remark that "only one man ever understood me, but even he didn't understand me". I think he was talking about Shelling which is a mixed bag because I'm not sure anyone (sane) ever understood Shelling either.

On the more insulting side, as one Frau asked "Who is this stupid fellow sitting next to me?" (It was Hegel)

As an aside, a long time ago Anax tried to do a thread on Hegel, but I actually managed to make him give up :) I recently tried to read a different work by Hegel, it is really flummoxing because you are not only hardpressed to follow his Rorschach of terms but even more under duress simply to come to a decision whether what he's writing is even intelligible. Its infuriating.
"There is great chaos under heaven; the situation is excellent."

User avatar
blindpig
Posts: 10744
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:44 pm
Location: Turtle Island
Contact:

Re: Reading Capital, continued (thread #2)...

Post by blindpig » Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:09 pm

blindpig
10-13-2009, 08:44 AM

Hell no, I ain't getting near that stuff. I think I remember that thread, the shit you wrote was even worse than Hegel, in terms of sheer incomprehensibility, it made my head hurt. But I am easily flummoxed by such things....
"There is great chaos under heaven; the situation is excellent."

User avatar
blindpig
Posts: 10744
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:44 pm
Location: Turtle Island
Contact:

Re: Reading Capital, continued (thread #2)...

Post by blindpig » Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:10 pm

anaxarchos
10-13-2009, 09:33 AM

...that we continue a pompous, segment by segment reading until we get to part 4, "Fetishism". At that point, we take a short break and I put up the material on "crisis" (which is long but very straightforward) as a thread. Then we return to do fetishism. And then we talk about if and how we want to continue.

Hamden Rice is just jealous... and, for someone who prides himself on what he knows rather than on who he is... he don't know much.
"There is great chaos under heaven; the situation is excellent."

User avatar
blindpig
Posts: 10744
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:44 pm
Location: Turtle Island
Contact:

Re: Reading Capital, continued (thread #2)...

Post by blindpig » Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:10 pm

Kid of the Black Hole
10-13-2009, 10:05 AM

sounds like a plan to me

Hamden oughta read some Hegel, hes some kinda walking talking contradiction all by himself
"There is great chaos under heaven; the situation is excellent."

User avatar
blindpig
Posts: 10744
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:44 pm
Location: Turtle Island
Contact:

Re: Reading Capital, continued (thread #2)...

Post by blindpig » Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:12 pm

anaxarchos
10-14-2009, 11:15 AM

Section 3A - Elementary or Accidental Form Of Value
Part 4. The Elementary Form of value considered as a whole
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/wo ... 1.htm#S3a4

With this section, we complete our extended elaboration of the Elementary Form of Value. After the discussion, I'll start a third "Reading Capital" thread as this one has gotten quite long. There, we will continue with the Expanded Form.

Anyone who has gotten a little lost in the twists and turns of the preceding sections need not worry. Much of the material, some of it bordering on formal logic, is intended for later use. Since the Elementary Form is the germ from which the vast and complex world of "commerce" emerges, understanding it in its simplicity helps us to discern later what is fundamental and what is merely incidental. For now, the exposition of the form, with the relative form expressing its value in an equivalent, on the right side of the equation, creates the basis for the Expanded Form or "chain" of equivalents... the next part of section 3.

I will reproduce the entire text (because it is quite short) and follow with a summary of this summary:


4. The Elementary Form of value considered as a whole

The elementary form of value of a commodity is contained in the equation, expressing its value relation to another commodity of a different kind, or in its exchange relation to the same. The value of commodity A, is qualitatively expressed, by the fact that commodity B is directly exchangeable with it. Its value is quantitatively expressed by the fact, that a definite quantity of B is exchangeable with a definite quantity of A. In other words, the value of a commodity obtains independent and definite expression, by taking the form of exchange value. When, at the beginning of this chapter, we said, in common parlance, that a commodity is both a use value and an exchange value, we were, accurately speaking, wrong. A commodity is a use value or object of utility, and a value. It manifests itself as this twofold thing, that it is, as soon as its value assumes an independent form – viz., the form of exchange value. It never assumes this form when isolated, but only when placed in a value or exchange relation with another commodity of a different kind. When once we know this, such a mode of expression does no harm; it simply serves as an abbreviation.

Our analysis has shown, that the form or expression of the value of a commodity originates in the nature of value, and not that value and its magnitude originate in the mode of their expression as exchange value. This, however, is the delusion as well of the mercantilists and their recent revivers, Ferrier, Ganilh,[23] and others, as also of their antipodes, the modern bagmen of Free-trade, such as Bastiat. The mercantilists lay special stress on the qualitative aspect of the expression of value, and consequently on the equivalent form of commodities, which attains its full perfection in money. The modern hawkers of Free-trade, who must get rid of their article at any price, on the other hand, lay most stress on the quantitative aspect of the relative form of value. For them there consequently exists neither value, nor magnitude of value, anywhere except in its expression by means of the exchange relation of commodities, that is, in the daily list of prices current. Macleod, who has taken upon himself to dress up the confused ideas of Lombard Street in the most learned finery, is a successful cross between the superstitious mercantilists, and the enlightened Free-trade bagmen.

A close scrutiny of the expression of the value of A in terms of B, contained in the equation expressing the value relation of A to B, has shown us that, within that relation, the bodily form of A figures only as a use value, the bodily form of B only as the form or aspect of value. The opposition or contrast existing internally in each commodity between use value and value, is, therefore, made evident externally by two commodities being placed in such relation to each other, that the commodity whose value it is sought to express, figures directly as a mere use value, while the commodity in which that value is to be expressed, figures directly as mere exchange value. Hence the elementary form of value of a commodity is the elementary form in which the contrast contained in that commodity, between use value and value, becomes apparent.

Every product of labour is, in all states of society, a use value; but it is only at a definite historical epoch in a society’s development that such a product becomes a commodity, viz., at the epoch when the labour spent on the production of a useful article becomes expressed as one of the objective qualities of that article, i.e., as its value. It therefore follows that the elementary value form is also the primitive form under which a product of labour appears historically as a commodity, and that the gradual transformation of such products into commodities, proceeds pari passu with the development of the value form.

We perceive, at first sight, the deficiencies of the elementary form of value: it is a mere germ, which must undergo a series of metamorphoses before it can ripen into the price form.

The expression of the value of commodity A in terms of any other commodity B, merely distinguishes the value from the use value of A, and therefore places A merely in a relation of exchange with a single different commodity, B; but it is still far from expressing A’s qualitative equality, and quantitative proportionality, to all commodities. To the elementary relative value form of a commodity, there corresponds the single equivalent form of one other commodity. Thus, in the relative expression of value of the linen, the coat assumes the form of equivalent, or of being directly exchangeable, only in relation to a single commodity, the linen.

Nevertheless, the elementary form of value passes by an easy transition into a more complete form. It is true that by means of the elementary form, the value of a commodity A, becomes expressed in terms of one, and only one, other commodity. But that one may be a commodity of any kind, coat, iron, corn, or anything else. Therefore, according as A is placed in relation with one or the other, we get for one and the same commodity, different elementary expressions of value.[24] The number of such possible expressions is limited only by the number of the different kinds of commodities distinct from it. The isolated expression of A’s value, is therefore convertible into a series, prolonged to any length, of the different elementary expressions of that value.


1. We first explored the commodity by itself, and discussed its "two-fold" nature. In this section, we discovered that this was a kind of shorthand. In truth, our commodity must come into a very definite relation with another in order for its "value side" to be expressed: "When, at the beginning of this chapter, we said, in common parlance, that a commodity is both a use value and an exchange value, we were, accurately speaking, wrong. A commodity is a use value or object of utility, and a value. It manifests itself as this twofold thing, that it is, as soon as its value assumes an independent form – viz., the form of exchange value. It never assumes this form when isolated, but only when placed in a value or exchange relation with another commodity of a different kind. When once we know this, such a mode of expression does no harm; it simply serves as an abbreviation."

2. "Our analysis has shown, that the form or expression of the value of a commodity originates in the nature of value, and not that value and its magnitude originate in the mode of their expression as exchange value."

3. "The opposition or contrast existing internally in each commodity between use value and value, is, therefore, made evident externally by two commodities being placed in such relation to each other, that the commodity whose value it is sought to express, figures directly as a mere use value, while the commodity in which that value is to be expressed, figures directly as mere exchange value. Hence the elementary form of value of a commodity is the elementary form in which the contrast contained in that commodity, between use value and value, becomes apparent."

4. The elementary form of value, which is logically the simplest form in which commodities actually exist as commodities, is also the earliest historical form in which they appear: "Every product of labour is, in all states of society, a use value; but it is only at a definite historical epoch in a society’s development that such a product becomes a commodity, viz., at the epoch when the labour spent on the production of a useful article becomes expressed as one of the objective qualities of that article, i.e., as its value. It therefore follows that the elementary value form is also the primitive form under which a product of labour appears historically as a commodity, and that the gradual transformation of such products into commodities, proceeds pari passu with the development of the value form."
"There is great chaos under heaven; the situation is excellent."

User avatar
blindpig
Posts: 10744
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:44 pm
Location: Turtle Island
Contact:

Re: Reading Capital, continued (thread #2)...

Post by blindpig » Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:12 pm

PinkoCommie
10-14-2009, 12:53 PM

- at an equal pace; in an equal or like way; Law without preference or priority.

Edit - Guess I shoulda checked on the effect of trying to post this in the subject line: (pä′rē pä′so̵̅o̅′, pā′ri′ pas′o̵̅o̅′)

:dunce:
"There is great chaos under heaven; the situation is excellent."

User avatar
blindpig
Posts: 10744
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:44 pm
Location: Turtle Island
Contact:

Re: Reading Capital, continued (thread #2)...

Post by blindpig » Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:12 pm

blindpig
10-14-2009, 01:02 PM

figured it was something like that.
"There is great chaos under heaven; the situation is excellent."

User avatar
blindpig
Posts: 10744
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:44 pm
Location: Turtle Island
Contact:

Re: Reading Capital, continued (thread #2)...

Post by blindpig » Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:13 pm

curt_b
10-14-2009, 01:26 PM

Did a search for it earlier: 1st four results:

#
Pari passu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Sep 5, 2009 ... This term is also often used in bankruptcy proceedings where creditors are said to be paid pari passu, or each creditor is paid pro rata in ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pari_passu - Cached - Similar
#
Pari Passu Realty Corp. - NYC real estate rentals and sales
Pari Passu Realty Corp. is a leading NYC real estate brokerage company specialized in residential rentals and sales.
paripassu.com/ - Cached - Similar
#
Welcome to Investopedia.com
Financial Term of the Day. Poison Pill. A strategy used by corporations to discourage hostile takeovers. With a poison pill, the target c... Read More.
www.investopedia.com/terms/p/pari-passu.asp - Cached - Similar
#
pari passu Definition
pari passu - definition of pari passu - Often seen in venture capital term sheets, indicating that one series of equity will have the same rights and ...
www.investorwords.com/3589/pari_passu.html - Cached - Similar
"There is great chaos under heaven; the situation is excellent."

User avatar
blindpig
Posts: 10744
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:44 pm
Location: Turtle Island
Contact:

Re: Reading Capital, continued (thread #2)...

Post by blindpig » Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:14 pm

blindpig
10-14-2009, 02:29 PM

The elementary form of value is the same as exchange value, writ large, indicating the transition in our discussion from the theoretical to the historic.

Or I'm really confused.
"There is great chaos under heaven; the situation is excellent."

Post Reply