What's a progressive anyway?

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blindpig
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Re: What's a progressive anyway?

Post by blindpig » Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:35 pm

anaxarchos
10-06-2008, 02:17 PM
Progressives are not Leftists, they are softer Capitalists.
1- Certainly progressives are on the left of the right-wingers and they seem to care about the poor.

2- Leftists, last time I checked, are people who believe in socialism, at least.

3- Progressives, as far as I can tell, don't believe in socialism.

4- While people believe Progressives are the top-left-radicals in America, this is not true, not even close. And because the media portray them this way, we are given the impression that the weak and slow change they advocate is extreme and almost intolerable.

So not only are Progressives are NOT Leftists, I also submit this to you : by calling them leftists, which is a very charged term in America, we are limiting the terms of the debates, we are giving a helping hand to the right-wingers.

No, Progressives are not Leftists, they are softer Capitalists.
So they're talkin' away: "Bush is the anti-Christ, Cheney is a mass murderer, they are all mass murderers, they steal elections, they have destroyed the constitution, everything they do is theft, they are destroying the planet, they are religious nut jobs who are planning to destroy the planet, they are Nazis, they murder millions, they are genocidal..."

And it goes on like this, not for an hour or a day but for years. Seemingly, there is no charge serious enough or accusation sweeping enough which is too radical to be flung at the social fabric.

And, you come along and say, "socialism" or "nationalization"....

And all of a sudden, it all turns on you... and you get a ringing defence of the system that would have been inconceivable five minutes before:

"With all its flaws, it is still the best system in the world" and "YOU wanna take away our freedoms"... and assorted other jive lifted from the civics textbooks and civil religions of those who were just being excoriated minutes before...

And, understanding this "balance" is called "progressivism".
"There is great chaos under heaven; the situation is excellent."

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blindpig
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Re: What's a progressive anyway?

Post by blindpig » Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:36 pm

Kid of the Black Hole
10-06-2008, 02:35 PM
Progressives are not Leftists, they are softer Capitalists.
1- Certainly progressives are on the left of the right-wingers and they seem to care about the poor.

2- Leftists, last time I checked, are people who believe in socialism, at least.

3- Progressives, as far as I can tell, don't believe in socialism.

4- While people believe Progressives are the top-left-radicals in America, this is not true, not even close. And because the media portray them this way, we are given the impression that the weak and slow change they advocate is extreme and almost intolerable.

So not only are Progressives are NOT Leftists, I also submit this to you : by calling them leftists, which is a very charged term in America, we are limiting the terms of the debates, we are giving a helping hand to the right-wingers.

No, Progressives are not Leftists, they are softer Capitalists.
So they're talkin' away: "Bush is the anti-Christ, Cheney is a mass murderer, they are all mass murderers, they steal elections, they have destroyed the constitution, everything they do is theft, they are destroying the planet, they are religious nut jobs who are planning to destroy the planet, they are Nazis, they murder millions, they are genocidal..."

And it goes on like this, not for an hour or a day but for years. Seemingly, there is no charge serious enough or accusation sweeping enough which is too radical to be flung at the social fabric.

And, you come along and say, "socialism" or "nationalization"....

And all of a sudden, it all turns on you... and you get a ringing defence of the system that would have been inconceivable five minutes before:

"With all its flaws, it is still the best system in the world" and "YOU wanna take away our freedoms"... and assorted other jive lifted from the civics textbooks and civil religions of those who were just being excoriated minutes before...

And, understanding this "balance" is called "progressivism".
.

Actually if these guys didn't have "corruption" in their playbook as the go-to playcall what would they do? Corruption is the equivalent of "original sin" for these guys. The Founding Fathers ideas were noble dontchaknow..but..the ideals got corrupted. In about 10^(-43) sec

Our system of government is good..except its corrupted, our laws are good..but corrupted, our values are good..or would be if they weren't so corrupted..

Um, really guys? At some point ya gotta ask the obvious..where's all this corruption comin' from anyways..
"There is great chaos under heaven; the situation is excellent."

solidgold
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Re: What's a progressive anyway?

Post by solidgold » Fri Feb 21, 2020 8:00 pm

Some great quotes here:
All too often "progressive" has come to mean someone who will offer unconditional support to The Democratic Party no matter what.It's all bullshit.
It's interesting how things panned out since 2008. It's easy to hate Bloomberg now, and the tune is obvious if he somehow got the nomination. "Anyone but Trump." No doubt. But AOC or the Young Turks (social democrat and progressive, respectively) will both tell you these could be separate parties in other countries. Progressives and the social democrats are not reaffirming the shady Democratic Party, they are EXPLICITLY approving of capitalism. It's an economic stance against leftists projected to the American right. But they are screaming for the Democratic Party to step aside. We'll see what the future holds and who wins the American left. Hopefully neither.
Fixing capitalism is the highest and in fact the only slogan of all of the above, and this in the most trivial and unhistorical way possible.
The solution to the "anti-democratic" turn in American politics is not to question its foundations but to proscribe "more democracy" or "real democracy", without evaluating for a minute whether the ""turn" is really an aberration. In economics, a "progressive" is one who blames an excess of greed, a deficiency of regulation, or the corruption of the state rather than the normal operation of capitalism.
No, Progressives are not Leftists, they are softer Capitalists.
Blindpig, you told me we were going back in time. And you're right, so far back that we have to start at the basics:
I. Communism is already acknowledged by all European powers to be itself a power.

II. It is high time that Communists should openly, in the face of the whole world, publish their views, their aims, their tendencies, and meet this nursery tale of the Spectre of Communism with a manifesto of the party itself.
We cannot be soft on the one thing we stand against: capitalism. We cannot uncritically back someone simply off the words "socialism." There must be stakes. We can't wave a white flag painted red by the marketing department.

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Re: What's a progressive anyway?

Post by blindpig » Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:53 am

Blindpig, you told me we were going back in time. And you're right, so far back that we have to start at the basics:
And that my friend is the purpose of all these Dead Russians we keep around here, ain't just nostalgia.
"There is great chaos under heaven; the situation is excellent."

solidgold
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Re: What's a progressive anyway?

Post by solidgold » Sat Feb 22, 2020 1:16 am

blindpig wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:53 am
Blindpig, you told me we were going back in time. And you're right, so far back that we have to start at the basics:
And that my friend is the purpose of all these Dead Russians we keep around here, ain't just nostalgia.
I think there are some dead Germans we can look to as well. In relation to the other thread, we got a long history of traitors there.

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Re: What's a progressive anyway?

Post by blindpig » Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:13 pm

Not sure which other thread you're referring to. The Russians because of their hard won materialism, they were primed and ready for Marx & Engels.

"When everything is lies and confusion, occupy the high ground: materialism." anaxarchos
"There is great chaos under heaven; the situation is excellent."

solidgold
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Re: What's a progressive anyway?

Post by solidgold » Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:04 pm

blindpig wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:13 pm
Not sure which other thread you're referring to. The Russians because of their hard won materialism, they were primed and ready for Marx & Engels.

"When everything is lies and confusion, occupy the high ground: materialism." anaxarchos
KOBH quoted Rosa Luxembourg in Wake Me Up thread. We can ask her what happens when the left is soft.

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Re: What's a progressive anyway?

Post by blindpig » Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:23 pm

solidgold wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:04 pm
blindpig wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:13 pm
Not sure which other thread you're referring to. The Russians because of their hard won materialism, they were primed and ready for Marx & Engels.

"When everything is lies and confusion, occupy the high ground: materialism." anaxarchos
KOBH quoted Rosa Luxembourg in Wake Me Up thread. We can ask her what happens when the left is soft.
What's left? Left is socialism. By whatever means necessary. And if the means proposed is the vote, then these 'leftists' are not serious and despite their prostations they are posturing. History teaches us and give them a chance so will Trump, Bloomberg, Gates, and Pelosi. And Bernie, he mighta been OK 40 years ago but if there were any doubt his sheepdog role in 2016 nails it.

But annoying as they are many of the Bernie fans profess interest in socialism and are in need of guidance. Hell, I was clueless not so long ago and still ain't no Einstein. We do the best we can and up our game as best we can. There is a reason the Dem bosses are getting antsy about Bernie, that diversionary tactic is getting a little out of hand. It ain't just losing the election, which they proly will regardless. Socialism cannot be allowed any legitimacy, none whatsoever, it's supposed to be dead goddammit!
"There is great chaos under heaven; the situation is excellent."

solidgold
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Re: What's a progressive anyway?

Post by solidgold » Sat Feb 22, 2020 7:13 pm

blindpig wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:23 pm
solidgold wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:04 pm
blindpig wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:13 pm
Not sure which other thread you're referring to. The Russians because of their hard won materialism, they were primed and ready for Marx & Engels.

"When everything is lies and confusion, occupy the high ground: materialism." anaxarchos
KOBH quoted Rosa Luxembourg in Wake Me Up thread. We can ask her what happens when the left is soft.
But annoying as they are many of the Bernie fans profess interest in socialism and are in need of guidance. Hell, I was clueless not so long ago and still ain't no Einstein. We do the best we can and up our game as best we can. There is a reason the Dem bosses are getting antsy about Bernie, that diversionary tactic is getting a little out of hand. It ain't just losing the election, which they proly will regardless. Socialism cannot be allowed any legitimacy, none whatsoever, it's supposed to be dead goddammit!
I just worry their interest is nothing more than a contrarian exercise. :[

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Re: What's a progressive anyway?

Post by blindpig » Sat Feb 22, 2020 8:53 pm

solidgold wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 7:13 pm
blindpig wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:23 pm
solidgold wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:04 pm


KOBH quoted Rosa Luxembourg in Wake Me Up thread. We can ask her what happens when the left is soft.
But annoying as they are many of the Bernie fans profess interest in socialism and are in need of guidance. Hell, I was clueless not so long ago and still ain't no Einstein. We do the best we can and up our game as best we can. There is a reason the Dem bosses are getting antsy about Bernie, that diversionary tactic is getting a little out of hand. It ain't just losing the election, which they proly will regardless. Socialism cannot be allowed any legitimacy, none whatsoever, it's supposed to be dead goddammit!
I just worry their interest is nothing more than a contrarian exercise. :[
Mebbe, and I put those eligible non-voters before them as a priority, but we shouldn't write them off out of hand either, however tempting.
"There is great chaos under heaven; the situation is excellent."

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