What are you reading?

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solidgold
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Re: What are you reading?

Post by solidgold » Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:39 am

Has anyone read Black Marxism?

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blindpig
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Re: What are you reading?

Post by blindpig » Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:51 pm

solidgold wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:39 am
Has anyone read Black Marxism?
I was unfamiliar with the book but if the quick search I did reflects reality then it seems to me another variant of 'anything but communism'. Consult the Chinese on this Eurocentric biz, they seem to have figured it out. Which is not to say that it does not merit examination.

There's an old thread where chlams presented anax with Russel Means' attack on the eurocentrism of Marx and anax's reply which is relevant here but can't find it at the moment.
"There is great chaos under heaven; the situation is excellent."

solidgold
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Re: What are you reading?

Post by solidgold » Sun Jun 21, 2020 5:11 pm

blindpig wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:51 pm
solidgold wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:39 am
Has anyone read Black Marxism?
I was unfamiliar with the book but if the quick search I did reflects reality then it seems to me another variant of 'anything but communism'. Consult the Chinese on this Eurocentric biz, they seem to have figured it out. Which is not to say that it does not merit examination.

There's an old thread where chlams presented anax with Russel Means' attack on the eurocentrism of Marx and anax's reply which is relevant here but can't find it at the moment.
I picked it up (among some other works) because I'm trying to make sense of a consistent trend away from (or against) Marxism in the Black left. I feel like, since the early 2010s, these ideas made their way out of academia and into public discourse. There is a large majority of social democrats and liberals who are using the opportunity to dismiss out-right leftist ideas, but there's a real good faith people who claim "class" is just not enough. In the aftermath of George Floyd, this has dominated left discussion where I am.

The author (who I believe is a socialist of some type, as opposed to Means) makes pretty serious claims against Marx. Among many topics, he argues 1. historical materialism is insufficient and limited 2. capitalism "wasn't a negation of feudalism" 3. European socialists were a middle class movement (though he cites an Austrian which is a red flag) 4. national movements have been more effective than class movements. His project basis on intra-European racism, citing the Irish working class in England against the nation of England--the Slavs, Jews, etc--and how European capitalism has always relied mostly on imported labor.

I've only gotten like a hundred pages in though--whether reactionary or not, it seems like a great resource for understanding the movement until the critical race theory of Harvard.

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blindpig
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Re: What are you reading?

Post by blindpig » Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:16 am

1.Insufficient for what? Not for understanding the major motivators of human history it ain't.

2. If the dominant class loses it's position to a rising class I think we can call that a negation.

3.In this I might somewhat agree if we confine 'socialists' to the politicians, theorists. It's an inevitability of history that the educated classes were the first to read socialist literature and thus by default leading the movement. The result has been mixed, ya get Lenin but ya get Kautsky too. And Lenins are far too few. With the advances in literacy among the working class these last hundred years ya'd think this would solve itself but as the bourgeois control every form of education(they started feeding us Orwell in the 8th grade) this has become another hurdle to surmount. Work, work, work.

4. Were Mao, Ho & Fidel nationalists or socialists? They were both and the distinction is irrelevant.

But then you're only a hundred pages in....excuse me.
"There is great chaos under heaven; the situation is excellent."

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