PinkoCommie
08-31-2009, 02:25 PM
I met a number of similarly minded folks when I went to the socialist gathering in Atlanta a couple summers ago.
Mutualism was a key term I would hear bandied about and, best as I can discern, this is something that seems to be popular in reaction to the evils of state socialism. Central planning is bad and private property, if not "bad," is certainly OK for a good bit of them.
I think stuff like this could only have currency among those who've insufficiently grasped - I love the way Anax phrased this - atomic unit of economics, value, and the consequent Labor Theory of Value. Of course the mutualists claim their whole concept is built on LTV.
Maybe I am just too quick to disregard them and their academics as they are to do the same to Marx. That said though, I cannot but fall back again on the fact that I know of no truly substantive contributions to political economy by them - at least not insofar as they have had legs enough to have garnered any criticism based on praxis.
What is Value?
Re: What is Value?
PinkoCommie
08-31-2009, 02:28 PM
The repetition is/was rough on me too. The solution for me, ironically, was to revisit the text repeatedly.
Not that I have finished the book though. I seem to have went on extended break time long about Chapter 10...but if one counts each read separately, I have probably 60 chapters under my belt
08-31-2009, 02:28 PM
The repetition is/was rough on me too. The solution for me, ironically, was to revisit the text repeatedly.
Not that I have finished the book though. I seem to have went on extended break time long about Chapter 10...but if one counts each read separately, I have probably 60 chapters under my belt
Re: What is Value?
RoseVann
08-31-2009, 02:30 PM
If economies require heirarchy, then the potential for abuse not only can arise, it eventually will.
08-31-2009, 02:30 PM
If economies require heirarchy, then the potential for abuse not only can arise, it eventually will.
Re: What is Value?
RoseVann
08-31-2009, 02:36 PM
Certainly those who would wish to be masters over others would need to be herded off a cliff.
My issues with Marxism is the same with economies in general, which is heirarchy will remain. With heirarchy in place, what starts out as Marxism eventually will turn into State-Sponsored Capitalism.
08-31-2009, 02:36 PM
Certainly those who would wish to be masters over others would need to be herded off a cliff.
My issues with Marxism is the same with economies in general, which is heirarchy will remain. With heirarchy in place, what starts out as Marxism eventually will turn into State-Sponsored Capitalism.
Re: What is Value?
RoseVann
08-31-2009, 02:41 PM
Because of heirarchy, trading Marxism for Capitalism is eventually trading one jackboot for another. You're trading bad for, at best, temporarily better. That's the problem anarchists have with any economy; the heirarchy.
08-31-2009, 02:41 PM
Because of heirarchy, trading Marxism for Capitalism is eventually trading one jackboot for another. You're trading bad for, at best, temporarily better. That's the problem anarchists have with any economy; the heirarchy.
Re: What is Value?
blindpig
08-31-2009, 02:55 PM
Then see Bakunin's words on 'natural authority'.
It's the kind of animal we are.
I think that you have not sufficiently discarded the propaganda which we all have been subjected to since the cradle and have not judged history in context, as Pinko pointed out.
08-31-2009, 02:55 PM
Then see Bakunin's words on 'natural authority'.
It's the kind of animal we are.
I think that you have not sufficiently discarded the propaganda which we all have been subjected to since the cradle and have not judged history in context, as Pinko pointed out.
Re: What is Value?
anaxarchos
08-31-2009, 03:00 PM
If you do, then please do explain... in terms that are concrete... how economics is based on hierarchy? How is that the engine of economic life? You don't want to talk about "value". You want to talk about Pol Pot. The reason is that you want to accept every single platitude manufactured by this society, without criticism, and still lay claim to "radicalism". This is a new radicalism, don't you see? Based on the exact same slogans as the old society...
Explain hierarchy and exchange, hierarchy and money, hierarchy and circulation, hierarchy and the erosion of the division of labor, heirarchy and prices... Explain something.
08-31-2009, 03:00 PM
If you do, then please do explain... in terms that are concrete... how economics is based on hierarchy? How is that the engine of economic life? You don't want to talk about "value". You want to talk about Pol Pot. The reason is that you want to accept every single platitude manufactured by this society, without criticism, and still lay claim to "radicalism". This is a new radicalism, don't you see? Based on the exact same slogans as the old society...
Explain hierarchy and exchange, hierarchy and money, hierarchy and circulation, hierarchy and the erosion of the division of labor, heirarchy and prices... Explain something.
Re: What is Value?
anaxarchos
08-31-2009, 03:05 PM
... but the "social sciences" are NOT branches of Biology or any other natural science. That would make them too rigorous on the one hand and there would have to be a Social Biology on the other - headaches for academic careerists all round.
08-31-2009, 03:05 PM
... but the "social sciences" are NOT branches of Biology or any other natural science. That would make them too rigorous on the one hand and there would have to be a Social Biology on the other - headaches for academic careerists all round.
Re: What is Value?
RoseVann
08-31-2009, 03:06 PM
The issue is labor, and particularily the exploitation of one's labor for gain by others. But as long as there's heirarchy, there's going to be exploitation. This includes the exploitation of "value." It doesn't matter if the economy is Capitalism, Marxism, Maoism, or what ever "ism" you want to insert. Heirarchy is the problem. An economy that is deemed "better" because it offers less exploitation over another economy is unacceptable.
08-31-2009, 03:06 PM
The issue is labor, and particularily the exploitation of one's labor for gain by others. But as long as there's heirarchy, there's going to be exploitation. This includes the exploitation of "value." It doesn't matter if the economy is Capitalism, Marxism, Maoism, or what ever "ism" you want to insert. Heirarchy is the problem. An economy that is deemed "better" because it offers less exploitation over another economy is unacceptable.
Re: What is Value?
PinkoCommie
08-31-2009, 03:06 PM
Central planning is bad.
-End dissertation-
08-31-2009, 03:06 PM
Central planning is bad.
-End dissertation-